Telecommute jobs

[arbiez 0]

Hi,

 

I have a question for ex-pats from USA. I have been interviewing for a job and I've been given a couple of options. One that allows me to continue with upward progression in current career path that requires a relocation to Florida. In our conversation I was also offered an opportunity that allows me to telelcommute 100% of the time. In other words, I will work from home. I just need Skype phone, a PC and broadband. While instead of furthering my career with promotions, the latter job is primarily relgated to client support. The salary will probably drop in half to around $50-60k USD. I'm sure that you know where I'm going with this, but . . .

 

Questions:

Are there any other ex-pats over there doing the same thing? If so, how was your transistion? (I'll need to start here in the states for a few months and then set up something there and transfer overseas while taking a "vacation".)

I've heard that Internet absolutely sucks in BKK. Regardless of format, (broadband, DSL, etc). I've been advised that it goes down almost everyday. This is unacceptable for me as my job depends on this.

What kind of tax considerations do I need to take into account?

In light of the more stringent enforcement of visas, how can someone under 50 move there? I understand the need to do Visa runs, but as I understand it, I'm not allowed to stay there full time with the weekend flight or bus run to obtain consecutive 90 day visas. Any guidance???

Are there any other considerations that I haven't thought about?

 

At this point, I'm unsure if I'll choose BKK, Patts or Phuket. I just assume that I'll try one and then move onward if I don't like it.

[aqua4 2]

Visas would be your main concern from what I see.

[joekicker 53]

I've heard that Internet absolutely sucks in BKK. Regardless of format, (broadband, DSL, etc). I've been advised that it goes down almost everyday. This is unacceptable for me as my job depends on this.

 

For what you have described, Bangkok Internet is much more than adequate. Skype is fine, just for example. There are certain steps you need to take if you DEPEND on the Net, but those are easy, and easily determined and implemented.

 

The visa is your problem. Depending on the job and company, you may qualify for a non-immigrant visa and work permit.

 

All things are possible, though. If I wanted to do exactly what you are thinking of doing, I would do it. In fact in the past I have done pretty well what you're describing, with all legality. It's just a question of how much you want it and how flexible you might be in dealing with the problems in a new and therefore alien place.

[Mescalito 19]

I'm planning/hoping to do this within a year and a half. One thing you need to do before deciding is to talk with a tax accountant or tax attorney, one with international expertise, and find out exactly what your tax liabilities will be in both countries.

[joekicker 53]

I'm planning/hoping to do this within a year and a half. One thing you need to do before deciding is to talk with a tax accountant or tax attorney, one with international expertise, and find out exactly what your tax liabilities will be in both countries.

 

For a working stiff with a salaried job and not much else as described in the original post, there is no need of professional advice. It's pretty simple.

 

If you live in Thailand, you have to pay income tax in Thailand on your earned income, pretty much as you would in the US. Any "in kind" payment like school fees or help with the rent is income, to both countries. Thai tax forms are pretty simple but you'll want some help filling one in around, oh, February, because, surprisingly, they are in Thai. Actually, the tax people at each amphur (district) office are quite good at helping on this, and on occasion I have just brought along all my receipts and pay details and let them do mine. YMMV.

 

The countries have a tax treaty. The income taxes you pay in Thailand can come off the gross earnings you must report to the IRS in the United States each year. If adjusted gross (including minus Thai income taxes) is less than $93,000, you are not liable to pay US taxes. "93,000" is adjusted every so often, something you are almost certain to be aware of if you live and work in Thailand but on which you certainly don't require profession help, since the IRS is happy to tell you.

 

If you are MORE than just a working stiff getting a salary or regular part-time income, you may want to ask some guy with a degree who gets paid a lot more than you do per hour. If that's the case, and you're going to pay someone anyway, I would be far more inclined to hire an American tax preparer, there are grazillions around the area including in Thailand, and just sign the forms, instead of paying for advice and trying to muddle through it yourself for hours and hours.

[torrenova 644]

But unlikely that he would be "working" and thus liable to any tax. If paid outside of US jurisdiction and gross, there should be ways to make sure that it stays that way and never is taxed.

[vidman 2]

I use skype and other net phone service regularly and let me tell you that sometimes the quality is terrible. Sometimes it drops the call for no reason whatsoever!

 

Also the net can go off and on several times a day for no aparent reason.

 

All in all its a bit hit and miss and i wouldnt like to be rely on it from a business perspective.

[MrMango 665]

I tried to do the same in Pattaya a couple of years age, and failed miserably, as you cannot rely on the quality of the Internet connection. For Voice calls you not only need a reliable connection with good upload speeds, but jitter, minimal delays and packet loss were unacceptable. You can try this site to test:

http://myspeed.streamguys.com/myspeed/test/mssvoip

 

As for the visa and tax questions, I was advised not to worry about the taxes, as I was not getting a paycheck paid directly to Thailand, and it appears that I was just a tourist on extended vacation - When I lived in Pattaya, I met several BM who apparently did similar things, but nobody advertised such activity.

 

Your biggest problem probably would be the Visa. It sounds like you only qualify for a 60 day, multiple visa, renewable for 30 more days, at a cost of 1900 Baht, at such time you need to do a visa run.

[arbiez 0]

Thanks for all of your replies. The answers are similar to what I expected. As I look at it now, I will be a US employee based in the US in a virtual telecommute assignment. As such, I would assume that I would only pay US taxes (and I'd "move" to a state that does not have state income tax, like NV).

 

For the visa, I'm pretty sure that I'd need to do the 60 visa with 30 day extension. From the looks of it, USA does not have a one year tourist visa unless you're over 50. Based on this, I would assume that if I actually go through with this, I'd work in LOS for 90 days, go "somewhere" (US, Singapore, Snookyville, etc.) for 90 days and then return to LOS on day 181.

 

Follow up question to the last point . . .

 

Mr Mango: Are you saying that the Visa run is made at day 60 (before 30 day extension) or are you saying as I assume that you need to go on an extended 30 day visa run on day 89 or 90 (and that Visa run is 91 days away at a minimum)

 

Please advise on that part.

 

Final comment on this entry. You mentioned the broadband speed and reliability. I've also heard and experienced this. My question for you in this regard . . . does it vary at different times of the day? (My assumtion being that service and reliability might pick up in the evening-late night as there should be fewer users at such times.) I also assume that Pattaya service is less favorable than BKK. (Unknown about Chiang Mai and/or Phuket -- My experiences regarding serivce on Phuket is great.)

[joekicker 53]

Thanks for all of your replies. The answers are similar to what I expected. As I look at it now, I will be a US employee based in the US in a virtual telecommute assignment. As such, I would assume that I would only pay US taxes (and I'd "move" to a state that does not have state income tax, like NV).

 

Like any tax avoidance, this depends on not getting caught, of course. Under US and Thai law, you should be paying Thai taxes.

 

For the visa, I'm pretty sure that I'd need to do the 60 visa with 30 day extension. From the looks of it, USA does not have a one year tourist visa unless you're over 50. Based on this, I would assume that if I actually go through with this, I'd work in LOS for 90 days, go "somewhere" (US, Singapore, Snookyville, etc.) for 90 days and then return to LOS on day 181.

 

There is nothing to do with 180 days. If you use that Rube Goldberg method of a 60-day visa-etc, you can go out and turn around and come back in. I think you're confused with the 30-day on-arrival "non-visa". Your plan to use a 60-day tourist visa doesn't require any absence and no one counts to 180 days.

 

You should know that if you do that job, you can get a work permit and one-year visa and never have to set foot outside the country unless you choose. Of course it's up to you.

 

I also assume that Pattaya service is less favorable than BKK. (Unknown about Chiang Mai and/or Phuket -- My experiences regarding serivce on Phuket is great.)

 

In general, Bangkok service is superior, but I know people who live in towns all over Thailand and they all have fine Internet service including Skype. What happened five or two years ago really isn't relevant.

 

Most of the commercial, ISP-type "broadband" Internet is ADSL and thus depends to a huge extent on the state of your telephone line. There are other types of services including satellite. There isn't much cable outside central Bangkok and the vast bulk of the very limited amount of fibre-optic is in Issan, centered on Udorn Thani..

[arbiez 0]

Like any tax avoidance, this depends on not getting caught, of course. Under US and Thai law, you should be paying Thai taxes.

There is nothing to do with 180 days. If you use that Rube Goldberg method of a 60-day visa-etc, you can go out and turn around and come back in. I think you're confused with the 30-day on-arrival "non-visa". Your plan to use a 60-day tourist visa doesn't require any absence and no one counts to 180 days.

Well I was using the 180 days as a part of the recent visa enforcement that as I understand it, requires someone entering the country as a tourist to only stay 90 days within any 180 day period. As such, I would need to leave LOS for 90 days after 90 days. (3 months in, 3 months out, then I can return for 90 days). As I understand it, this ruling is being enforced in a more stringent fashion post-Thaksin to eliminate/reduce the number of people doing 30 day visa run turnarounds and thereby staying in LOS indefinately. So, the maximum that I'm able to stay within any 180 period is 90 days. (Assuming that I do not have an "O" Visa for 1 year multiple exits.) I don't know if this is limited to USA as I've read that some folks in the UK under 50 can obtain a 1 year multi-entry tourist permit. I didn't see that on the Thai consulate site for the US. Granted that I don't fully understand all of this and that is why I've asked on this forum. I know this isn't an ultimate answer, but I figure someone on this site can point me in the proper direction and I'll seek legal and official guidance from the appropriate authority. (More than likely, an attorney and an accountant orginally from US currently doing business in LOS with experience in such items.)

 

You should know that if you do that job, you can get a work permit and one-year visa and never have to set foot outside the country unless you choose. Of course it's up to you.

My plan is to not advise my potential employer of my actual locale. As far as they would know, I live in Reno or Las Vegas and that would be my "permanent" address. So, I would be a US employee working for a US company in a US state (by virtual means) with my pay being deposited in a US bank that I access with my US ATM card. I'm sure that if they knew I planned to move to LOS, the salary would be reduced to a LOS salary. I'm also pretty sure they are not planning to offer a work permit. (I may ask them about living in another country, but I'm not mentioning LOS. Perhaps Costa Rica or Canada.) I think the intrepretation would be akin to a vacation in which I do some work (as I've done on previous trips).

 

In summary, not being paid by a Thai company and not servicing Thai customers.

 

In general, Bangkok service is superior, but I know people who live in towns all over Thailand and they all have fine Internet service including Skype. What happened five or two years ago really isn't relevant.

This is very good to know. I've experienced issues with internet in BKK as recent as February 2007, but I don't know what level of ADSL my friend has in his home. I never experience this issue at the Westin as I assume the Westin has a T1 pipe at minimum. If I go this route, I'm sure I'll get the best media access I can obtain and may consider my locale based on type of service.

 

Most of the commercial, ISP-type "broadband" Internet is ADSL and thus depends to a huge extent on the state of your telephone line. There are other types of services including satellite. There isn't much cable outside central Bangkok and the vast bulk of the very limited amount of fibre-optic is in Issan, centered on Udorn Thani..

Again, Many thanks

 

Final Item: A Google link for a Rube Goldberg machine . . .

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2367646121273499414

Edited September 22, 2007 by arbiez

[joekicker 53]

Well I was using the 180 days as a part of the recent visa enforcement that as I understand it, requires someone entering the country as a tourist to only stay 90 days within any 180 day period.

 

This is what I figured, that you have misunderstood. All this 180-day nonsense is only for people with NO visa. That is, if you arrive at the Bangkok airport with a US passport, they will allow you to stay for 30 days, without a visa. There's a stamp in your passport that indicates this. If you do that, you're under that 90/180 day nonsense.

 

Anyone who has an actual visa of any kind, issued by any Thai consulate, does not come under the 180-day thingmy.

 

I don't know what visas are available where. A multiple-entry tourist visa (good for 60 days each time you enter) is available, but I haven't a clue how to get one. A non-immigrant visa for 90 days is available and would be needed if you intend to parlay that into a one-year-at-a-time work visa after you get to Thailand. As I say, you CAN do that, you handle all the paperwork not your company. But it's up to you.

 

In any case, if you plan to get some kind of visa in your passport, any kind, from any Thai consulate, you can forget the 180-day limits.

 

Final Item: A Google link for a Rube Goldberg machine . . .

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2367646121273499414

 

heh. thanks. Yes, good one. It only distresses me that so many emulate him unwittingly.

[ginseng 0]

How many times can you renew the 60 day Tourist visa? How does one go about renewing it within Thailand?

Edited September 22, 2007 by ginseng

[MrMango 665]

How many times can you renew the 60 day Tourist visa? How does one go about renewing it within Thailand?

I don't think that you can renew it in Thailand - Only your home country. They used to issue them in Singapore and Penang, but I have read that this is dicey now. I got mine in the U.S. as a 3 entry visa and if you mix 30 day visas with it, you could get up to 2 years or so with it using visa runs.

As a practical matter, you probably would be going back to the U.S. at some time for holidays, meeting with the boss, etc. and renew your multiple visa then.

[jacko 8,766]

I don't think that you can renew it in Thailand - Only your home country. They used to issue them in Singapore and Penang, but I have read that this is dicey now. I got mine in the U.S. as a 3 entry visa and if you mix 30 day visas with it, you could get up to 2 years or so with it using visa runs.

As a practical matter, you probably would be going back to the U.S. at some time for holidays, meeting with the boss, etc. and renew your multiple visa then.

One of the visa run outfits is obtaining single entry tourist visas in Malaysia. Well they are advertising the fact on TV.

 

I am also confused how you will stay in Thailand for 2 years using one triple entry tourist visa.... that visa would expire after 6 months.

Edited September 23, 2007 by jacko

[ginseng 0]

One of the visa run outfits is obtaining single entry tourist visas in Malaysia. Well they are advertising the fact on TV.

 

I am also confused how you will stay in Thailand for 2 years using one triple entry tourist visa.... that visa would expire after 6 months.

 

 

I am confused too. I've been told you can extend the tourist visa for 30 days then renew it once and again renew for 30 days equaling 6 months. But I thought renewing it was only possible once. I wasn't aware there are different types of Tourst visas, I thought there was only one, single entry one.

[jacko 8,766]

I am confused too. I've been told you can extend the tourist visa for 30 days then renew it once and again renew for 30 days equaling 6 months. But I thought renewing it was only possible once. I wasn't aware there are different types of Tourst visas, I thought there was only one, single entry one.

A common mistake is to call the 30 day arrival stamp 'a tourist visa'... it is not. A tourist visa is stuck into your passport outside Thailand. You cannot 'renew' a tourist visa, you use it until it is used up (number of entries), or it expires, then you would need another.

 

What you descibe sounds like what the visa run outfits are advertising, with a bit of the above confusion.

 

You get a single entry tourist visa in Malaysia...enter and stay 60 days.

 

Extend it at immigration for 30 days...

 

Do a visa run after the 30 days and get a 30 day stamp.

 

Do it again after those 30 days are up.

 

Now you *might be able to do it again to reach the 90/180 limit relating to 30 day entry stamps.........

 

Total, a 6 month stay in Thailand...

 

* I say might because the 30 extension to the original tourist visa is rumoured to count in the 90/180 limit, of this I am unsure. But perhaps you could go to Malaysia again instead!

[joekicker 53]

It occurs to me, arbiez, that your chances of moving to Thailand and no one finding out about that even though you are in daily contact with them is so close to zero as to BE zero. Someone (probably you by accident) or something will give you away. Example: Some techie at your company is trying to track down some network problem and he'll go, "Hmmmmmm, that's weird, arbiez' email shows it's coming from Thailand. I wonder why." From there, it will take him about 14 seconds to find out exactly why -- because it IS coming from Thailand.

 

For example.

[MrMango 665]

One of the visa run outfits is obtaining single entry tourist visas in Malaysia. Well they are advertising the fact on TV.

It is a single entry - Not the best for a long stay.

 

I am also confused how you will stay in Thailand for 2 years using one triple entry tourist visa.... that visa would expire after 6 months.

First I said up to 2 years -

Arrive using a a tourist 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days in Jomtiem

Do a visa run and get another 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days

Do a visa run and get another 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days

Do a visa run and get another 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days.

Do a visa run and use your 60 day visa

Extend it 30 days in Jomtiem

Do a visa run and use your 60 day visa

extend it 30 days

Do a visa run and use your 60 day visa

Extend it 15 days.

Do a visa run and get a 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days.

Do a visa run and get a 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days

Do a visa run and get a 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days

This gives you about one year and 9 months year stay (With a lot of visa run hassles)

At this point you probably are ready to go back to the U.S. for vacation and you can start over again.

[arbiez 0]

It occurs to me, arbiez, that your chances of moving to Thailand and no one finding out about that even though you are in daily contact with them is so close to zero as to BE zero. Someone (probably you by accident) or something will give you away. Example: Some techie at your company is trying to track down some network problem and he'll go, "Hmmmmmm, that's weird, arbiez' email shows it's coming from Thailand. I wonder why." From there, it will take him about 14 seconds to find out exactly why -- because it IS coming from Thailand.

 

For example.

I'm not too concerned about the IT group finding out. Once on board, I can say that I'm on vacation and working through it. Or that I'm doing some other work in Singapore and went to LOS for ___ period. What I am concerned about going into an interview and saying, "I want this position so I can live in LOS". I think it changes the dynamic of the interview process and perspective of the people doing the interviews.

 

Hopefully it's simple after that.

[jacko 8,766]

It is a single entry - Not the best for a long stay.

 

 

First I said up to 2 years -

Arrive using a a tourist 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days in Jomtiem

Do a visa run and get another 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days

Do a visa run and get another 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days

Do a visa run and get another 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days.

Do a visa run and use your 60 day visa

Extend it 30 days in Jomtiem

Do a visa run and use your 60 day visa

extend it 30 days

Do a visa run and use your 60 day visa

Extend it 15 days.

Do a visa run and get a 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days.

Do a visa run and get a 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days

Do a visa run and get a 30 day visa

Extend it 15 days

This gives you about one year and 9 months year stay (With a lot of visa run hassles)

At this point you probably are ready to go back to the U.S. for vacation and you can start over again.

How do you get the immigration official to totally ignore the (60 day) Tourist visa in your passport the first, second and third times you come in? There are a lot of other issues with this approach, one being you might not get the extensions you hope for. Even then, it is only 'up to' 1 year 9 months, not 2 years. Also, as I stated, one of the Tourist Visa (60 day) extensions likely will count against you in the 90/180 limitation. This very limitation was introduced to curb people living here based only on the 30 day stamps (it is NOT a visa). It seems they are now tightening up the loopholes on that regulation change.

 

 

 

Apologies for the thread highjack, but I worry people plan their trips based on dubious 'visa' information.

[PerpetualTroll 0]

It occurs to me, arbiez, that your chances of moving to Thailand and no one finding out about that even though you are in daily contact with them is so close to zero as to BE zero. Someone (probably you by accident) or something will give you away. Example: Some techie at your company is trying to track down some network problem and he'll go, "Hmmmmmm, that's weird, arbiez' email shows it's coming from Thailand. I wonder why." From there, it will take him about 14 seconds to find out exactly why -- because it IS coming from Thailand.

 

For example.

 

 

Idiot - ask the board moderator where this post is from? It will show as Herndon VA, as will my email sent.

 

I'm in Thailand.

 

I land new clients all the time and they never know I'm in Thailand.

 

Open the right orifice next time - I don't think you used your mouth.

[joekicker 53]

Did someone say something? No? Okay, thought I heard something.

[touristman 1]

Did someone say something? No? Okay, thought I heard something.

 

I think someone said 'idiot', others implied it,...............i can only concur and add 'on so many levels'.

 

 

=====================================================================

 

Back to the thread, i think that to 'remote place' yourself here would be little problem.The only thing that may give you away may be your sometimes 'dodgy' internet connection if you chose to reside here.

[PerpetualTroll 0]

That is why it is imperative to have 2 DSL connections. One of which should be TT&T Business for 3400 a month.