Man, 72, refused alcohol over age

[ben99 0]

Supermarket staff refused to sell alcohol to a white-haired 72-year-old man - because he would not confirm he was over 21

 

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7003325.stm

[joekicker 53]

The store, of course, will change its stupid policy -- one way or another. But it's a great illustration of why you should obey good laws, not just obey the law.

[saigon_butterfly 1]

Was quite flattered the last time I ordered a drink at the Atlanta airport. I'm well over 50 and they asked for my ID. Grandma comes along and sits down next to me and they asked for her ID also. Guess I wasn't as young looking as I thought.

Later, SB

[Sailfast 503]

It's may not be that they can't tell your age, it's probably more that they are not permitted by law to sell booze to anyone without a legal ID, regardless of age.

In the state I live in, it is against the law to be in a bar/club without ID. If there is a raid, the bar can get fined for persons without ID regardless of age.

Silly, well, maybe. Then again if you paid $100K (or more, as it is in some states) for a license, you don't have to worry about some bouncer letting someone in because he used bad judgement as to how old they looked.

[joekicker 53]

It's may not be that they can't tell your age, it's probably more that they are not permitted by law to sell booze to anyone without a legal ID, regardless of age.

 

Sure. Either that or the owners of the establishment decide to cover their axxes 12 different ways so they can never get busted. Either way, it's the dumb law behind it, I'd say. Well, it is their business (literally) and they can make any rules they wish and I can choose whether to give them my money depending on how they conduct their business. We still have that choice, anyhow.

[Eneukman 1]

Unless the law has changed in the UK, you're allowed to buy alcohol at 18. Many bars, however, have a policy of not allowing anyone under the age of 21 in.

 

In most cases, it should be bloody obvious whether someone is over 21 or not. The store is just being bloody minded. In Somerfield's in Edinburgh, a message comes up on the till asking the cashier whether the would be purchaser was over 18. They never asked me as it was blatantly obvious that my 18th birthday was a long time ago.

 

Alan

[joekicker 53]

Alan, absolutely. Some places are thick, some are literal-minded, some truly believe they are "CYA". All of them are bloody annoying and wouldn't get my patronage twice, if the first time.

[SOLOTREKKER 0]

Its been about 4 years since I had a license and ran 2 pubs in the UK, the method one gets a license changed last year, but the law hasn't.

 

1. Anyone 18 yrs or older may enter a licensed premises and buy alcohol, providing they are not drunk!.

 

2. Anyone aged 14yrs to 17 yrs may enter a licensed premises and order/drink soft drinks.

 

3. Anyone aged 5yrs to 14 yrs may enter a licensed premises escorted by someone 18yrs or older, drink soft drinks but may not order such.

 

4. Anyone aged 5 yrs or above may drink alcohol ( this to cover wine, cider, bottled shandy etc.) in a restaurant, ONLY if taken as part of or with a meal and ordered by someone 18yrs or older.

 

5. Selling alcohol to/or allowing a person to stay on the premises if they are 'Obviously' drunk is an offence, and can result in loss of your license and a large fine.

 

Before last year, licenses were granted by the local Magistrate, and was tied to a particular pub or pubs, unless there was an objection from the police, ( the police licensing officer). The police did not have to state any reason for the objection. Appeals were VERY rare, and 99.999% unsuccessful.

 

Last year the UK licensing method changed, the applicant now applies to his local council, if successful, he his granted a license which he/she can take anywhere in the country, the new license is in the form of an ID card with photo, I am not sure how long each one lasts, 10yrs+ I think??, ( could be wrong), but this will do the licensee for any pub or bar in the country that he buys or manages.

 

There are some other detailed rules about the licensee nominating a responsible person to run the bar in his absense for short periods of time, but normally, a person with a license must be present in the building during the times that the pub/bar is open, failure to adhere carries a £5000.00 fine and his license is withdrawn, or the license is objected to by the police at any time, you lose your licence.

 

The last resort of the licensee is, He has the RIGHT to refuse ANYONE entry into his/her premises and failure to comply with an instruction to leave the Pub/Bar/restaurant could result in prosecution of the offender, using the new Criminal Trespass Law, also passed recently.

 

SOLO.

Edited September 24, 2007 by SOLOTREKKER

[monkeyman 1,588]

It's may not be that they can't tell your age, it's probably more that they are not permitted by law to sell booze to anyone without a legal ID, regardless of age.

In the state I live in, it is against the law to be in a bar/club without ID. If there is a raid, the bar can get fined for persons without ID regardless of age.

Silly, well, maybe. Then again if you paid $100K (or more, as it is in some states) for a license, you don't have to worry about some bouncer letting someone in because he used bad judgement as to how old they looked.

Brits don't have ID cards (yet).

[joekicker 53]

Brits don't have ID cards (yet). eyecrazy

 

Nor do Americans. Nor do foreigners in Thailand have a Thai ID card. Nor do other civilised nations have ID cards. In my personal view it is a sign of civilisation that they do not have ID cards.

 

Yet when required to show ID, pretty well everyone can always produce ID. That's why 21-year-old Brits can get served, not to mention the 72-year-old Brit in the original story, who could have shown his ID and got his bottle, except he refused. And good for him, but he could have produced ID as the store demands of everyone, and which most British sheeple apparently do for them -- produce ID.

[midlifecrisis 4,029]

Joe,

 

Americans have picture ID at the state level - it is called a driver's license. If you do not drive you can obtain a picture ID. In California both are available from the DMV.

 

Try doing any business without it. When I was looking for an apartment I was required to leave it in the office often while going to the apartment with the manager. Try writng a check without it. When signing my divorce papers in the presence of a notary public, it was required as proof of identity. There are many such examples.

 

You are supposed to carry picture ID with you at all times, if an adult, in California. If you get stopped by police without it you can be detained until they verify your identity.

 

We have no national ID card yet but our state picture IDs are respected in every state of the union.

 

As far as this 72 year old man is concerned, is it possible he was intoxicated? Liablility laws regarding serving alcohol (even in your home) can be very severe. If he wasn't, these people were just plainly unreasonable.

Edited September 25, 2007 by midlifecrisis

[joekicker 53]

Americans have picture ID at the state level - it is called a driver's license. If you do not drive you can obtain a picture ID. In California both are available from the DMV.

 

Like I said to the poster who noted Britain does not have a national ID card, the US does not have a national ID card, yet people in both countries pretty well always have ID.

 

In your blessed Surfnafornia, the ID you refer to has nothing to do with nationality. Immigrants, visitors and most odiously and ominously illegal immigrants all are not just entitled but encouraged to carry the state ID, thus making it somewhat less than dependable as a state ID, and giving it no weight whatsoever as a national one.

 

Not every state shares that generosity with its counterpart ID.

 

We have no national ID card yet but our state picture IDs are respected in every state of the union.

 

Heh. "Respected" has two meanings, well illustrated here. I take it that in the case of the Surfnafornia cards, you mean it in the sense of "accepted".

 

As far as this 72 year old man is concerned, is it possible he was intoxicated? Liablility laws regarding serving alcohol (even in your home) can be very severe. If he wasn't, these people were just plainly unreasonable.

 

I have no idea, and don't much care, but the OP's reference story says another lady at the same time was given the same ridiculous treatment. He was in a store, not a bar. Do you think British liability laws would extend to selling someone a sealed bottle of drink? Do you think British stores train their employees to note the specific amount of intoxication of their customers in judging whether to allow them through checkout?

[sinbinjack 243]

5. Selling alcohol to/or allowing a person to stay on the premises if they are 'Obviously' drunk is an offense, and can result in loss of your license and a large fine.

SOLO.

Not a lot of city center bars in my town seem to be following this rule as the vast majority of young bar goers at closing time are at the least ,swaying, if not totally legless.I think there is too much alcohol abuse today and everyone should reduce their intake ,not a great thought for a drinkers forum I know but sensible.

Edited September 25, 2007 by sinbinjack

[short 215]

In the state of Tennessee they now have mandatory ID check for everyone regardless of how old they look. This is in contrast to many state say something to the effect that anyone looking younger than 30 must show ID. Any business caught not inforcing the law will lose their beer/liquier license.

 

The irony is that when I was a teenager in Tennesse I actually bought beer at drive through Weigels on a bicycle. My how times have changed.

Edited September 28, 2007 by short

[joekicker 53]

In the state of Tennesse they now have mandatory ID check for everyone regardless of how old they look.

 

I've heard of such laws. They are stupid. Flat statement. I don't care what the reason or reasons for them were, they are simply stupid laws. Of course almost any law that is "mandatory" is stupid, such as the "mandatory" life sentence for the Surfnafornian who "stole" a slice of pizza from someone at a sidewalk restaurant. But mandatory ID check *is* stupid.