Change in ED visa requirements

[lovedog100 1,372]

New, Major Visa Requirements - Education “Ed” Visas Holders Must Attend Classes

By VISITH PINPAWONG

 

According to the Deputy Director, the Thailand Ministry of Education is warning all schools who offer Education Visas to foreigners to be legitimate and make sure students adhere to attendance and testing requirements.

 

At the Pattaya City Expats Club meeting on Sunday, Immigration Volunteer and former British Consul Barry Kenyan stated the problem with Education visas as he observed it first-hand in the local Immigration office on Jomtien Beach Road, Soi 5.

 

“A guy came in and wanted to renew his Education visa for a 7th straight year. He waited in the queue and when it was his turn he sat at the Immigration officer’s desk in charge of Education Visas. He had all of his documents from the school. His application was completed and he had the two photos now required for any visa. So the officer looked at him and said, ‘You have been learning Thai for six years already. Is that right?’ The answer was yes so the officer looked at a nearby fish tank and said in Thai, ‘The big fish eat the little fish.” The foreigner looked at him without a clue. The officer smiled and picked up a big red stamp and stamped “CANCELLED” on the remaining portion of the current visa and told the fellow he would not again receive an Education visa,” Barry reported.

 

The Deputy Director of the Thailand Ministry of Education recently summoned all language schools’ owners in Pattaya along with senior Chonburi Immigration Police Investigators to address this issue and notify the schools of the crackdown.

 

“Now any school found to be selling the Education visa simply to allow the foreigner to stay in Thailand and not attending the school will be closed down and lose their license. All of the school’s students, whether attending or not, will have their visas cancelled,” the representative of the Ministry of Education stated.

 

Going to school and learning Thai is one option for people to "long stay" in the Kingdom without having to constantly do "border runs." It is especially popular with those who can self-fund themselves living here and do not need to work but are not yet 50 years of age thus not being able to qualify for a Retirement Visa. A Pattaya Times undercover investigation has discovered that some schools are selling discounted "courses" where the "student" pays a reduced fee that gets them a visa but they have no intention of ever attending a class.

 

Every school in Pattaya has a maximum allocated student base dependent on classroom availability. One school in particular was named and shamed. The school in question has a maximum capacity of 160 students based on if the classrooms were full every minute of every day. Most schools have 40% of students sign up for second and third years, thus reducing the capacity of the school of new students in the second year by 40%. In the case of the capacity of the school above reducing the intake of new students to 96.

 

The education department in very strong language asked the particular school if they thought the education department was foolish and if they do not keep records. In the last three months this school had new sign ups of 80 students and was asked where they sit their students and where are the three extra classrooms they would require to cope with this over capacity. Even if the school opened all night they still would not be able to facilitate all the students.

 

It has also come to the notice of the Education Department that a lot of schools are using teachers to teach Thai who are not educated to Degree standard and they have warned this must stop.

Pol. Capt. Samruai Sa-Mann from Chonburi Immigration police then told all the schools that five foreign nationals are now working undercover on behalf of immigration trying to buy the visa from schools without attending classes.

 

He added, the schools will be prosecuted if the undercover investigators gather evidence of such practices.

 

They are also to investigate visa shops who are offering the Ed Visa and law firms who offer the Ed Visa as it is only registered schools who can offer these visas, Deputy Inspector Samruai said.

The Police Captain also added that it had also come to his attention that some schools were using foreign nationals teaching without work permits. Recently two Pattaya schools have been raided by his officers.

 

"If we catch teachers working in schools without a work permit, we will recommend to the Education Department that these offending schools should be closed. We will also be calling all people who advertise language lessons with a visa. We will book some lessons and on arrival we will be asking for work permits of people who we believe are working without work permits," said Pol. Capt. Samruai Sa-Mann from Chonburi Immigration.

 

-- Pattaya Times 2011-07-07

[Bushcraft 2,591]

Interesting, we all know this is a common circumvention of the rules to gain long-term residence without visa runs, journeys home to renew an 'O' visa etc.

If this crack-down bites, I wonder what benefits the authorities in question expect to gain for the Thai economy and culture though.

It seems to me that apart from a possible wish to rid Thailand of farang they consider undesirable (by what definition?), there is nothing much to be said for this. It will certainly reduce the income and employment potential of more-or-less dodgy language schools, it will discourage potential expats (who are all by definition contributors to the Thai economy in the way of sales taxes), or induce long-stayers to leave, by making the visa process more difficult or impossible, and it will benefit the ridiculous and unnecessary (but highly profitable to some .. exactly whom?) visa-run industry.

Have I missed something that might justify this crackdown, except that rules is rules?

[lovedog100 1,372]

Interesting, we all know this is a common circumvention of the rules to gain long-term residence without visa runs, journeys home to renew an 'O' visa etc.

If this crack-down bites, I wonder what benefits the authorities in question expect to gain for the Thai economy and culture though.

It seems to me that apart from a possible wish to rid Thailand of farang they consider undesirable (by what definition?), there is nothing much to be said for this. It will certainly reduce the income and employment potential of more-or-less dodgy language schools, it will discourage potential expats (who are all by definition contributors to the Thai economy in the way of sales taxes), or induce long-stayers to leave, by making the visa process more difficult or impossible, and it will benefit the ridiculous and unnecessary (but highly profitable to some .. exactly whom?) visa-run industry.

Have I missed something that might justify this crackdown, except that rules is rules?

Good question. If I were to make a guess, I would say that this is a case where Thai racism outweighs the benefit to the economy. I would expect the farang owned language schools to be the first, if not the only ones to be shut down.

[joekicker 53]

Interesting, we all know this is a common circumvention of the rules to gain long-term residence without visa runs, journeys home to renew an 'O' visa etc.

 

It's actually not too common. Even in Pattaya you don't see that much, elsewhere it's close to but not exactly zero of long-term visas and extensions. But what is really common is a need for newspapers (and ThaiVisa, which leapt on this) to have a headline to grab readers and make money. Even the lead-in para here, what's new?

 

According to the Deputy Director, the Thailand Ministry of Education is warning all schools who offer Education Visas to foreigners to be legitimate and make sure students adhere to attendance and testing requirements.

 

Me, I see three questions there: Yes? And? The point is?

 

Debunk 101: The minister of education will set the policy at the Ministry of Education - and there isn't one yet. Officials can certainly "crack down" on law-breaking, but only in petty and temporary ways. If you're smart, you already know this long-term visa is temporary anyhow, you're going to get caught, and you can't use it for anything but long-term tourism of a few years. Seems to me, not much to see here.

 

.

[Bazle 1,500]

Interesting, we all know this is a common circumvention of the rules to gain long-term residence without visa runs, journeys home to renew an 'O' visa etc.

If this crack-down bites, I wonder what benefits the authorities in question expect to gain for the Thai economy and culture though.

It seems to me that apart from a possible wish to rid Thailand of farang they consider undesirable (by what definition?), there is nothing much to be said for this. It will certainly reduce the income and employment potential of more-or-less dodgy language schools, it will discourage potential expats (who are all by definition contributors to the Thai economy in the way of sales taxes), or induce long-stayers to leave, by making the visa process more difficult or impossible, and it will benefit the ridiculous and unnecessary (but highly profitable to some .. exactly whom?) visa-run industry.

Have I missed something that might justify this crackdown, except that rules is rules?

The same problem exists in the UK with dodgy educational establishments. The contribution to the economy of having these people here is not a lot as they work in the black economy and don't pay taxes. Most probably, the people they work for are evading tax as well.

 

With Thailand, it might be different as many of the people concerned will be spending money they already have accumulated outside of Thailand; however, I suspect there will be a few who are working illegally.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

New, Major Visa Requirements - Education “Ed” Visas Holders Must Attend Classes

 

 

I've read the article a couple of times and can't see what the "new requirements" are.

 

I would say that this is a case where Thai racism outweighs the benefit to the economy.

 

What are you on about; Thai racism?

[JohnnyK 28]

Taiwan has the same "schools". Basically many of them are simply scams set up to snare falangs who want to circumvent the normal visa/residence process. The gov't needs to look at the owners of these joints if they are serious. As for falang boy knowing no Thai after 7 years, too bad Chuck, you've been rumbled. Inexcusable. All he had to do was nod and say, "Chai, kap."

[jacko 8,822]

It's actually not too common. Even in Pattaya you don't see that much, elsewhere it's close to but not exactly zero of long-term visas and extensions. But what is really common is a need for newspapers (and ThaiVisa, which leapt on this) to have a headline to grab readers and make money. Even the lead-in para here, what's new?

 

According to the Deputy Director, the Thailand Ministry of Education is warning all schools who offer Education Visas to foreigners to be legitimate and make sure students adhere to attendance and testing requirements.

 

Me, I see three questions there: Yes? And? The point is?

 

Debunk 101: The minister of education will set the policy at the Ministry of Education - and there isn't one yet. Officials can certainly "crack down" on law-breaking, but only in petty and temporary ways. If you're smart, you already know this long-term visa is temporary anyhow, you're going to get caught, and you can't use it for anything but long-term tourism of a few years. Seems to me, not much to see here.

 

.

I see you avoided Bushcrafts over-evaluation of the Expat's worth to the big-picture Thai economy. Generally something you pick up on. This follows on the heels of a headline regarding farang land-ownership to be quashed doesn't it. Anti-farang headlines seem to be common these days, must be trying to emulate the success of the UK's Daily Mail.

[joekicker 53]

I see you avoided Bushcrafts over-evaluation of the Expat's worth to the big-picture Thai economy.

 

It wasn't all that difficult. The thing is that these abused education visas aren't a drop on the arxe of a monitor lizard. Unless you have one or are contemplating one, no one notices. The catch is that there ARE all kinds of legitimate students, thousands of them, mostly at universities and similar -- and of course the monks come in on these as well from quite a few countries -- so there's only the horrible job of once in a while going after half a dozen Pattaya bums and using them as examples. If you're an actual student, this is a nice visa, quite simple too. The abuse of it is hardly worth mentioning except some of the scum involved are quite remarkable, I guess. I knew a guy, now dead, who ran one of these operations for quite a long while. It's not nice to speak ill of the dead, so I won't detail his scumminess.

 

Generally something you pick up on. This follows on the heels of a headline regarding farang land-ownership to be quashed doesn't it. Anti-farang headlines seem to be common these days, must be trying to emulate the success of the UK's Daily Mail.

 

Well, I suppose in Pattaya, maybe. I hardly see the Pattaya newspapers. I haven't noticed any such thing in Thailand, certainly not in the Thai press, certainly in Bangkok.

 

Thailand just had an election, it was in pretty well all of the newspapers. The media in general haven't had much space for headlines about farang one way or another or another, and probably won't for a while -- generally speaking. Never say "never", there will always be exceptions.

 

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[Grandpollo 366]

When I first read the title of the post I thought they had a visa for people that needed Viagra.