No deal Brexit and flights in and out of UK

[Butch 3,456]

Looking from the outside now I'm amazed by the Quitter Brits (e.g. on "Question Time" from Dewsbury last night) who have adopted a "head-in-the-sand ostrich attitude" since June 2016, despite all that has been learned by EVERYONE (incl. Boris, Liam, Jacob, David, et al) since then - borne out by the recent Govt. Technical Advisories.

 

It seems to me, that entrenched attitudes ("I voted ....., and I CAN'T have been wrong") are the order of the day.

 

My old Mum asks me "Why can't the EU just be nice?", citing two world wars etc., but she's 84 and didn't vote. A quick read of article 50 says why - but I don't browbeat her with it. No bloke in the UK under 76 years old did National Service, so where is all this good-old-days let's-all-go-down-with-the-ship-singing-Rule-Britannia island mentality coming from? Feed people on shit and keep them in the dark (apparently NOT how mushrooms are grown)?

 

I've never ever been big on Schadenfreude but a part of me wants to see 'No Deal' to see what happens.....

 

No flights (aha! On topic!). Brits buying decent inflatables, lifejackets and outboards for Kent to Nord-Pas de Calais, then trading them on the beach at Dieppe with UK-bound refugees in a never-ending shuttle? The British have landed....(better outcome than in 1942).

 

The famous football-terrace jibe "In your Liverpool slums" (where our son lives), people looking in dustbins and a dead rat could be a treat?

 

If anything bad happens blame it on the "Jeermeunz"....

 

Anyway, back to where-chchchchch....

 

Andy Cap

 

"It seems to me, that entrenched attitudes ("I voted ....., and I CAN'T have been wrong") are the order of the day" -

 

Perhaps the self serving elitist remainers should take heed of that statement?. It is becoming more and more obvious that project fear, calls for a second referendum and tantrums thrown by those who still complain about a democratic vote not going their way are clutching at straws to try and force a second one.

 

What happens then, we have a "2 out of 3" vote on the decider?, if it is again a vote to leave, do we keep running votes until the screaming brats get what they want and are finally quiet?.

 

You can try and gloat, surmise and envisage the UK being destitute as much as you want but the truth is that you don't know what will happen when we leave, and by insinuating that the UK will be eating rats is somewhat churlish. To be honest looking at the state of modern day France, I truly think it's hardly a shining beacon of social integration and a multicultural utopia. One can't blame the UK for not wanting to be a part of it, and that's even before we look at the economic success stories of Greece, Spain and Portugal.

 

 

 

 

555 Puuya Baan !

 

Let them drink Irish! If there's no food on the shelves at least the Brit populace will be able drown their sorrows with Scotch and all those artisanal gins....!

 

Still nobody got a plane ticket post-29th March?

 

Andy le Cap

 

Mrs Butch has booked Milan with BA via AMEX next year April 11th through to April 20th.

[Siam Sam 964]

You can try and gloat, surmise and envisage the UK being destitute as much as you want but the truth is that you don't know what will happen when we leave, and by insinuating that the UK will be eating rats is somewhat churlish. To be honest looking at the state of modern day France, I truly think it's hardly a shining beacon of social integration and a multicultural utopia. One can't blame the UK for not wanting to be a part of it, and that's even before we look at the economic success stories of Greece, Spain and Portugal.

Good post and you kind of took the words right out of my mouth. I really can't be bothered to argue with the remainers these days so rarely bother. Let's just see what happens and see how arrogant and dramatic they are about things after we leave. We've survived worse than this as a nation. The way that the EU is reacting to our decision to leave is proof we are better off without these people and Brussels has had it all their own way for too long. They'll do their best to make it is as awkward as possible for us to leave and ensure the worst financial repercussions but that is all they can do which is clutching at straws. Ultimately the corporations hold all the power and will always do as they wish whether we're in the EU or not. A few years from now we'll look back on this and wonder what all the fuss was about at the time and realise how poisonous the media really can be. Oh yeah someone at work has just booked flights to Spain over Easter next year. Wow this ban on flights within Europe post Brexit is a real nuisance.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Siam Sam

[capdagde 1,954]

Mrs Butch has booked Milan with BA via AMEX next year April 11th through to April 20th.

 

Thanks for that info about the airline ticket....... It's all wait and see as you and Sam say.

 

I'm not a Stayer, a Remainer, a Remoaner or a Gloater (which could only happen AFTER the exit). I was just letting my imagination run wild in my post.

 

I wasn't allowed a vote and have now got myself 2 passports a result. I don't trust politicians to get things right for me.

 

I saw the opportunity, took it and I've taken back control of my life.... let's see if the UK can on your behalves.

 

Andy Cap

Edited September 28, 2018 by capdagde

[jacko 8,814]

 

Thanks for that info about the airline ticket....... It's all wait and see as you and Sam say.

 

I'm not a Stayer, a Remainer, a Remoaner or a Gloater (which could only happen AFTER the exit). I was just letting my imagination run wild in my post.

 

I wasn't allowed a vote and have now got myself 2 passports a result. I don't trust politicians to get things right for me.

 

I saw the opportunity, took it and I've taken back control of my life.... let's see if the UK can on your behalves.

 

Andy Cap

Coincidentally someone mentioned to me a few French people had been escaping taxation and buying property in Thailand recently. We are very familiar with Brits retiring to the South of France, or setting up business there attracted to cheaper property, any sentiment from you Andy? (Wrt taxation and living in France)

[capdagde 1,954]

Coincidentally someone mentioned to me a few French people had been escaping taxation and buying property in Thailand recently. We are very familiar with Brits retiring to the South of France, or setting up business there attracted to cheaper property, any sentiment from you Andy? (Wrt taxation and living in France)

 

Hi jacko

 

I'm afraid the years of "Je suis un Rock Star" by Bill Wyman have gone,

 

when "in the good old days" the IMF were knocking at the UK's door and there was 83% top rate income tax causing "voulez-vous partir with me?" My Dad never paid that working on the railways https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_exile

 

To become French we had to show our French tax returns for the last three years, get a letter from the Tax office saying all our local and national (income) taxes were paid up to date, show all our property deeds and the leases of those rented out, a letter from the bank saying that every last cent that we took in rent went through the bank (no black money), as we both work our work contracts and salary slips for Oct, Nov et Dec for the past three years, officially translated ORIGINAL birth, marriage and death certificates for both sets of parents and ditto birth and marriage for ourselves, photocopy of every page of our passports, a Ministry of Justice attestation, one each, showing that we had not been found guilty of any misdemeanour EVER.... I might have forgotten a few things.... oh yes, as we are under 60 and don't have a French Baccalaureat or Degree, a language test...

 

Quite a lot of our Brit acquaintances who love "to keep under the radar" can't supply a lot of that stuff, so they're waiting and seeing.

 

Apparently there are still Brits wanting to buy here, even at 1.13€ to the £ !?! I'm teaching an estate agent tech English this afternoon (more cunning linguism) who specialises in golf course properties - no gazumping, copropriety instead of leasehold etc. I'm using the graph below to show property ownership mindsets. Some French people believe the urban myth here that the Queen owns all the property in the UK - not too bright some of them.

 

The worst thing you can do in France is have your own business (I had a limited company for 5 years) - the paperwork and demands for money from the government are horrendous. BE SALARIED or even better a salaried civil servant, like Flo. Her French nationality now guarantees both her right to work and her civil service pension (We weren't waiting about to see the politicians screw it all up for us). We left the UK in 1986 aged 25/24 so only a few bits and pieces of pension over there.

 

I hope that answers your question.

 

Butch - as you know the media only show the bad bits of any story - plenty of former French colonial subjects are extremely well integrated here. Of course, if people only listen to Marine Le Pen and her newly-named RPF, they will only get one side of the story.

 

British Quitters seem to only think about the POLITICS..... "taking back control", sovereignty (the UK parliament has always been sovereign - what do people think they do?) and protecting borders (from people - nobody counts them in - AND imports?). Anyone got an EU "law" they don't like? Nobody has ever told me which laws they don't like..... the UK will have to duplicate all the research laboratories and reintroduce the British Standard Kite Mark - all at great expense - to ensure that stuff going out and coming in is "up to spec".

 

The UK has an enormous amount to lose ECONOMICALLY and COMMERCIALLY - one only needs to read paragraph 3 of article 50 to realise that: "3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period."

 

Trade with 27 EU countries and 60 countries with which the EU (incl. the UK) has treaties. Further treaties are almost completed after years of negotiations. Liam Fox and the PM with her "robot" have achieved zero since the referendum.... we'll see.

 

Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and France... you brought them up...

 

1973 Greece, Spain and Portugal were dictatorships

1974 Portugal's "Carnation" revolution and end of junta in Greece

1975 Franco's death in Spain

1976 Greece, Spain and Portugal were no longer dictatorships

1981 Greece joins EU

1981 Spain suffers an attempted coup d'état

1986 Spain and Portugal join EU

 

These accessions were clearly POLITICAL moves.

 

More POLITICS

 

In 1946, France, which had been a collaborating power more than many would like to be mentioned, saddled itself with the 4th Republic constitution, very similar to Italy's (Axis power) 1947/8 constitution which is still in force today - proportional representation and perpetual weak government and coalitions - to avoid a return to Fascism, a dominant single party. Even the left and right populists in Italy have had to form a coalition.....

 

De Gaulle shook things up in France and the result was the Fifth Republic in 1958. De Gaulle then became an "almost dictator" which led to the riots in 1968 and all that. Then CdG was bundled off to retirement and things settled down.

 

France is okay. I pay my taxes and get more out than I put in - peace of mind over health, 3 years (over 55) of dole at two thirds of salary if fired or laid off, tax breaks if you study the government websites hard enough. The unemployment seems high but that's down to ZERO HOURS CONTRACTS being banned (quite right too). Zero contracts - there's a Great British Tradition - the shame.

 

ECONOMICS - the 3 countries Greece, Spain and Portugal had a lot of catching up to do. All three joined the Euro in 2002.

 

Greece then bought all the toys in the shop and forgot to pay for them, gave out unrealistic pensions from age 50 (hairdressers because of the "rigour" of their work), "forgot" to tax the shipping magnates and "forgot" to repay their loans (the people forgetting were politicians) - one day the creditors would call in their debts, no? Whose fault?

 

Spain went all out for boom or bust and got both, but are now in recovery (nothing in the mainstream media about that)

 

Portugal is ticking over nicely.. nice retirement packages available there. http://www.makethemoveportugal.com/news/article/10/tax-free-pensions-in-portugal

 

Even the boom years were not all bad - all the "poorer" southern European countries and Ireland benefitted from surprisingly large owner-occupancy....

 

Some surprises there. Interestingly, the Jeermeunz rent - too many memories of rubble transmitted through the generations.

 

Admittedly some of these houses will have been repossessed after the credit crunch of 2008- ...but a lot of catching-up was done.

 

Never trust politicians in ANY country (Greece, Spain, UK, France.....). They'll put themselves first and fcuk you up!

 

Ah, I see a Ryanair flight coming in to land at Béziers from my office window = ON TOPIC!

 

I've had about enough of it too - no progress.

 

Andy le Cap

Edited October 1, 2018 by capdagde

[Rawhide2 1,343]

Oh yeah someone at work has just booked flights to Spain over Easter next year. Wow this ban on flights within Europe post Brexit is a real nuisance.

 

You're pure gold buddy thats for sure. Twist, deflect and move the goalposts. Which footie team do you support !

Best you check your Easter dates next time before making a fool of yourself again

Edited October 2, 2018 by Rawhide2

[Siam Sam 964]

You're pure gold buddy thats for sure. Twist, deflect and move the goalposts. Which footie team do you support !

Best you check your Easter dates next time before making a fool of yourself again

 

I'm pure gold? Really? The irony of that statement when it comes from somebody like you is what is pure gold. As far as I'm aware Brexit occurs on the 29th of March next year and Easter Sunday is on the 21st of April. Or have you "seen stuff" again that suggests the contrary? You are the fool.

 

 

 

I asked you to direct me to the sites that will tell us all what is going to happen in the event of both Brexit scenarios and you come back with this. Are you going to substantiate anything you have to say with any evidence or fact on this matter or are you just going to carry on as you are?

 

Still waiting..................

[capdagde 1,954]

 

Still waiting..................

 

Here are a couple of speeches..... the first one is about economics, preparedness and project management and is therefore 'boring' (no soundbite flourishes about sovereignty etc.), but needs to be listened to

 

The second one is more stand-up...... and people might not like it but there you go....

 

I can't find anything other than soundbites from politicians or anyone else. If anyone who is an ardent Brexiteer can find one called "How Brexit is going to work" or something like that, I'd love to see it.

 

Ryanair has published its April-onwards timetable but no tickets can be bought - Flo's sister wants to come over in May = on topic.

 

Peace and Love, brothers and sisters

 

Andy Cap

Edited October 2, 2018 by capdagde

[accyboy 78]

I have bought Ryan air tickets mcr out & return

From there own website July 14th 20019 flights !

[jacko 8,814]

 

 

Ryanair has published its April-onwards timetable but no tickets can be bought - Flo's sister wants to come over in May = on topic.

 

Ryan air are having problems with strikes too.

Besides, they are shite!

[atlas2 4,329]

The EU is talking tough.....They are allowed to. They will talk tougher.....But we are allowed to be tough as well.

 

I believe it will get more scary.......It's important our politicians hold their nerve. I understand the EU wants to hurt us.....but they won't want to be hurt back.

 

Stop our planes we'll stop theirs. Everything they do we have a harmful reply.

[capdagde 1,954]

I have bought Ryan air tickets mcr out & return

From there own website July 14th 20019 flights !

 

Well done accyboy. I wasn't offered the chance to buy.

 

Ryan air are having problems with strikes too.

Besides, they are shite!

 

It"s a bus service - takes off AND LANDS. Shite is when they crash surely?

 

The EU is talking tough.....They are allowed to. They will talk tougher.....But we are allowed to be tough as well.

 

I believe it will get more scary.......It's important our politicians hold their nerve. I understand the EU wants to hurt us.....but they won't want to be hurt back.

 

Stop our planes we'll stop theirs. Everything they do we have a harmful reply.

 

Well THAT is the ultimate argument - Mrs May says to the EU "my deal or no deal". That's pretty tough talk in my book. "If anything bad results from Brexit it will be the EU's fault", say you. We have met atlas2 - is this a troll post?

 

This is not a POLITICAL game as the Brit politicians are party-politicking it - it's a LEGAL one and the repercussions are ECONOMIC and are already affecting everyone in the UK.

 

The Q&A of the above videos gives you your answer at 41m (towards the end gets a bit remoaner - you have been warned). This is my last post on this subject. As Bushcraft said last time I saw him "I don't have a dog in the fight" anymore. I'm working on outcomes for my kids.

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by capdagde

[accyboy 78]

I totally agree Ryan air are crapola but its a means to an end its a short hop in comparison to Thailand and it was cheaper than other options paid for on CC in case that may help any issues that may arise ...

[atlas2 4,329]

Not a troll post at all dont be so condescending.

Just a different point of view.

 

I happen to think The UKs sovereignty is very important. Worth any cost incurred.

 

I dont believe extreme costs will be incurred. Both sides have too much to lose.

A deal will be done.

Edited October 2, 2018 by atlas2

[Siam Sam 964]

If anyone who is an ardent Brexiteer can find one called "How Brexit is going to work" or something like that, I'd love to see it.

 

 

You won't find any. Nor will you find any reliable ones that prove how it won't work. It concerns something that has never occured before and hasn't even happened yet. You can attempt to predict, explain or quantify but nobody knows for sure. That's my whole point with all this and what I'm saying is that whatever happens, it won't be anywhere near as bad as what the completely biased and dishonest media say it will be. However if you want to know what is going to happen for definite you need to speak to our resident sage Rawhide the 2nd who has apparently "seen stuff" on the internet which proves what'll happen in both deal or no deal Brexit scenarios although I am still waiting for him to substantiate these claims.

 

 

This is not a POLITICAL game as the Brit politicians are party-politicking it - it's a LEGAL one and the repercussions are ECONOMIC and are already affecting everyone in the UK.

 

Oh so it's a legal game then? Would that involve the laws created by the unelected quangos and other similar representatives sitting in their ivory tower in Brussels, laws of which the British public have voted not to be bound by anymore? Congratulations, with your last post you hit the nail on the head and illustrate beautifully why we no longer want to be part of this farcical white elephant that was a good idea in theory but not in practice. The economic repercussions currently occurring in The UK are due to all the uncertainty and that won't last forever. We'll survive without the EU.

[atlas2 4,329]

I agree.........For anyone to state 'it's not a political issue' why then are the politicians involved? We joined an economic area.....but the EU has become a political endeavour and that's the central problem. If it was currently a purely legal and economic issue it would have been sorted to everyone's benefit ages ago by economist and lawyers......It's the political agendas that have muddied the waters.

 

The problems are 90% political.

 

I also agree that no one knows what will happen in the end. I have faith it will end in a deal where no one gets everything they want but a compromise is reached.

 

It's annoys me when people infer they know it will all turn to rat-shit or end up smelling of roses.

 

A C.of.E bishop recently said 'The opposite of faith isn't doubt.....it's certainty'

[jacko 8,814]

 

 

It"s a bus service - takes off AND LANDS. Shite is when they crash surely?

 

 

How tolerant of you...

When they don't take off, they are shite.

When they land way too late, they are shite.

When the staff are rude to you, they are shite.

When they hit you with extra charges, they are shite.

As an airline, they are shite!

[atlas2 4,329]

Yesterday's speech by Boris.....(up on youtube today).....demonstrates clearly that the central issue is our sovereignty ...........This is a wonderful opportunity.

[misteregg 709]

democracy at work.

[martini9946 129]

Thomas Cook rules out compensation for no-deal Brexit disruption

Airline and tour operator amends terms but says it will still reimburse ticket costs

Daniel Boffey in Brussels

Thu 4 Oct 2018 14.46 BST Last modified on Thu 4 Oct 2018 17.23 BST

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Thomas Cook classifies the UK crashing out of the EU without a deal as akin to situations such as civil unrest. Photograph: Paul Hanna/Reuters

 

 

British tourists travelling with Thomas Cook will not receive compensation or expenses should their flights be grounded as a result of a no-deal Brexit, the company has said.

The airline and tour operator, a specialist in package holidays, changed its terms and conditions to reflect the risk of the UK crashing out of the EUwithout a deal, including on aviation.

Thomas Cook, based in Manchester, has designated a no-deal Brexit as being akin to other situations it cannot control such as “civil unrest or events arising out of political instability”, in its conditions.

While the company will continue to refund the cost if a flight is cancelled, the change will mean it is not obliged to pay additional compensation.

Last week, the European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, confirmed that “if everything goes wrong … British planes will not be able to land on the European continent”.

A UK government report published in September warned flights could be disrupted in the case of no deal, as EU-issued aviation licences would be invalid.

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Thomas Cook said last year that they would make changes to its terms to treat any airspace closure as being in the same category as a natural disaster.

It has now emerged that specific provision has been made for all the problems associated with a no-deal Brexit, with the company ruling out “compensation, damages, expenses, costs, losses or any other amount of any description” due to the “inability of Thomas Cook Airlines to operate flights as a result of the United Kingdom’s decision to leave the European Union(including the loss or restriction of air traffic or transit rights or the right of airline(s) to enter any airspace)”.

Asked whether its customers could be stranded on the continent by the cancellation of flights, a spokesman said: “If a customer was on a holiday with Thomas Cook, we would ensure we would get them home as we do with all the holidays we sell.”

The spokesman added of the changes to the terms and conditions: “We have been selling holidays and flights for the post-Brexit world for over a year and have prepared the business to operate in that environment, including introducing a clause into our terms and conditions.

“We clarified our terms and conditions to highlight that if customers could no longer fly, we would of course ensure that the cost of tickets, or package holidays, were reimbursed.”

The UK is seeking a replacement for the open skies agreement, which currently allows EU airlines to fly wherever they wish within the EU.

Airlines UK, an industry association that represents 13 UK-registered carriers, has said it is confident an agreement will be reached to protect customers.

In January, Ryanair added a “Brexit clause” to its conditions, in which it warned customers that tickets would not be valid if an aviation agreement were not settled between the EU and the UK. The company said it would pay compensation.

The Liberal Democrat MEP Catherine Bearder said: “Without a specific deal on air transport, flights will come to a standstill on the evening of 29 March 2019. I’m not making this up. I’ve met many airlines and this is what they tell me.

“The Tories are lost in their Brexit psychosis, ignoring the extreme economic damage they are about inflict on the country and people’s lives.”

Since you’

 

[accyboy 78]

Since you ,?

[martini9946 129]

Since you ,?

its from the page i copied it of it was a survey thought id missed copying it lol

[martini9946 129]

The head of the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) has refused to work with his UK counterpart on a post-Brexit arrangement for flights, according to newly published letters released late on Thursday.

The letters were published by the UK’s Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) based on a Freedom of Information request from the BBC.

The correspondence between the two men highlights the possibility that thousands of flights could be grounded between the UK and European Union after Brexit takes place on 29 March 2019.

The conversation started when the head of the CAA contacted the EASA in June, saying he wanted both sides “to undertake technical discussions” about Brexit and create a “joint transition plan.”

EASA’s executive director Patrick Ky responded in July, saying that any conversations between the two sides would be “premature” since politicians had to finalise a Brexit deal first.

The EASA, he said, had informed airlines and stakeholders about the grave implications of the UK falling out of the EU’s legal and regulatory framework for aviation safety. But there was no such clarity from the CAA, he said.

“Clarity is needed ahead of any technical discussion,” Ky said.

UK’s warning on flights

Last month, the UK government laid bare how European-bound flights from the UK could be grounded in the event of a no-deal Brexit. The government warned that if it’s unable to reach a comprehensive Brexit deal with its EU counterparts, UK-based airlines would have to seek permission each time they plan to fly from the UK to Europe.

This could affect about 11,000 flights from the UK to the EU each week, according to flight data from Flightglobal.

Aviation experts and executives have been warning for over two years about the risk of disruptions and grounded flights in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

Aerospace “is an industry being trapped between the political shenanigans going on between the UK government and the European Commission,” said Paul Everitt, chief executive at the aerospace trade group ADS, according to the BBC. “Unless we have a deal there is significant risk of disruption.”Last month, Ryanair (RYA.L) boss Michael O’Leary warned “there is no assurance” that flights between the EU and UK could continue.

Johan Lundgren, the CEO of rival British carrier easyJet (EZJ.L), has been less concerned about Brexit, recently saying he had been reassured by both Brussels and London that at least a basic agreement would be in place to enable flights to continue after Brexit.

UK airlines have sought to limit the potential damage by registering business units in the EU, and European airlines have done the same in the UK. This would theoretically allow UK domestic flights to continue operating, and EU flights to continue travelling between EU countries. But flights from the UK to the EU could face problems, or be blocked altogether.

What about US flights?

The UK government noted last month it is renegotiating air service agreements with 17 countries – including the US, Canada, Morocco and Israel – to keep flights moving.

These countries have air service agreements with the EU, but after Brexit, the UK won’t be part of these deals.

The government said it had finalised some agreements and was working on the rest, but did not specify which countries had agreed to new deals.

[jacko 8,814]

It was stupid tying ourselves down with them in the first place.

Freedom, bring it on!

[Rawhide2 1,343]

More meat on the bones provided by Martini9946. Some really need to get their heads outa the sand in the event of a no deal. Reading summaries of the weeks dailies yesterday and any potential deal is quite likely to be voted out

Tough times coming