Medical insurance for expats, both Thailand and your home country

[Ready2Retire 0]

Hi everyone nice to meet you first time poster here from America. My ultimate future goal is to move to Thailand long term preferably Chiang Mai area for cost and also natural beauty. And yes I have visited that area several times.

My plan is to work as much as I can for a few more years until I hit my late 50's. Slowly but surely my body is failing me and I realistically cannot last long enough to collect social security at 62 years of age. I did the numbers and I should have enough saved and invested to last me until then.

I am starting to do more research on Thailand expats. 

One huge must for me is to have some form of medical insurance in Thailand. Even if it was not mandated by law I have seen too many horror stories of what could happen without it. Since it is not an insignificant expense, my question is would you guys start getting such insurance a few years before actually settling in Thailand? As insurance costs get more expensive the older you get would it not be advantageous to start earlier if possible or is that money lost?

Also, what if for some reason you have to go back to your home country? In my case, Medicare does not kick in until three months after you turn 65. And what about long term care insurance in the event you have to go back home and you need help? My hope is that I can find some LTC facility in Thailand to live the rest of my days out.

Thank you for your ideas.

[jacko 8,786]

The annual costs of insurance policies go up with age.... so no real advantage of getting in early than the cover, BUT you need to get in before the cut off age for new customers... mostly around 75 yo.

Some policies include cover for trips overseas from Thailand, but beware the USA is often excluded due to the high costs there.

There are some care facilities in Thailand these days.... and one could rent a nurse to come to your own place. (http://www.rentanurse.asia/) Generally, I would say Thailand is not a place to be with poor health.... I do not think much of the available insurance, and the better hospitals, may well be cheap by USA levels, but can cost a lot. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by jacko

[rhodie 31]

https://eastinyhome.com/ This is one of the places in Pattaya that offer various levels of care at very reasonable prices. Will give you an idea. Quite a few in Hua Hin and Chiang Mai as well.

[sailingbill 1,015]

R2R you do well to consider this.    First retiring to Thailand is a dream few guys realize. I have never been so happy.  As to the question this a long shot but would your job give you the possibility of working for the Feds or State even part time. After 5 years retire with BCBS which covers 100% in patient cost.  I was in Bumrungrad for a week and over 200,000 baht covered 100%. I think $200 usd/ month premium, doesnt go up with age. Over the years we had staff ,lawyers , watermen , farmers that came on not caring what job they took.  More realistically did you serve in the Military? Manila will cover Tricare and only a 5 hour flight.  The other option is i have friends who have been here for 20 years and self insured. That typically does not work to well anymore because of higher costs. What they have done is discover much cheaper alternatives in public or military hospitals.Still excellent care.

[Broughton 497]

I’m no expert on this but obviously it’s a topic we all will consider at some point in time.

I somehow come across this video on YouTube no doubt somebody on here will have view on it one way or another but on the face of it it doesn’t seem too bad on the other hand it could be a complete rip off.

 

[forcebwithu 4,822]

22 hours ago, Ready2Retire said:

Hi everyone nice to meet you first time poster here from America. My ultimate future goal is to move to Thailand long term preferably Chiang Mai area for cost and also natural beauty. And yes I have visited that area several times.

My plan is to work as much as I can for a few more years until I hit my late 50's. Slowly but surely my body is failing me and I realistically cannot last long enough to collect social security at 62 years of age. I did the numbers and I should have enough saved and invested to last me until then.

I am starting to do more research on Thailand expats. 

One huge must for me is to have some form of medical insurance in Thailand. Even if it was not mandated by law I have seen too many horror stories of what could happen without it. Since it is not an insignificant expense, my question is would you guys start getting such insurance a few years before actually settling in Thailand? As insurance costs get more expensive the older you get would it not be advantageous to start earlier if possible or is that money lost?

Also, what if for some reason you have to go back to your home country? In my case, Medicare does not kick in until three months after you turn 65. And what about long term care insurance in the event you have to go back home and you need help? My hope is that I can find some LTC facility in Thailand to live the rest of my days out.

Thank you for your ideas.

What you'll want to get is an expat policy which has requirements for how long you have to be out of your home country for the policy to remain in force. So that precludes you from purchasing expat health insurance to far in advance of your move. My policy with IMG Insurance has this to say on eligibility.

This plan is available to individuals and families of all nationalities. U.S. citizens must plan to be residing outside U.S. on or before their effective date and renewal dates, for at least six (6) out of the next 12 months. Additional eligibility restrictions apply to non-U.S. citizens residing in the U.S. Persons from the ages of 14 days to 74 years old may apply for coverage, and coverage ends at age 75. Persons 75 years of age and older are not eligible for coverage. Please see a sample contract for further details.

I did pony up the relatively small extra cost for worldwide coverage, including visits back to the US.

The link below is to one of several topics about health insurance.

 

[Ready2Retire 0]

22 hours ago, jacko said:

The annual costs of insurance policies go up with age.... so no real advantage of getting in early than the cover, BUT you need to get in before the cut off age for new customers... mostly around 75 yo.

Some policies include cover for trips overseas from Thailand, but beware the USA is often excluded due to the high costs there.

There are some care facilities in Thailand these days.... and one could rent a nurse to come to your own place. (http://www.rentanurse.asia/) Generally, I would say Thailand is not a place to be with poor health.... I do not think much of the available insurance, and the better hospitals, may well be cheap by USA levels, but can cost a lot. 

Thank you, yes I figure that it's not going to be a huge difference in cost if I wait for a few more years. If I get one will definitely exclude USA coverage, and will probably have to scale back some features to lower the cost. 

I'm doing pretty okay healthwise and I think moving to Thailand will actually improve things because I will be a lot more active and watch my diet better. I hope never to need assisted living but seeing how my dad is very old and has no means to finance long term care spooks me. If something should happen in the future and I have to move back hopefully by then Medicare will be in effect. But not having long term care insurance as a backup can be scary. But my ultimate plan is to move to Thailand and never look back. Hiring a private caregiver also seems like a good and more cheaper option.

16 hours ago, rhodie said:

https://eastinyhome.com/ This is one of the places in Pattaya that offer various levels of care at very reasonable prices. Will give you an idea. Quite a few in Hua Hin and Chiang Mai as well.

Thank you for the link. Those prices for the private bedroom are reasonable, at least when you compare it to back home. Definitely an option should it be needed.

16 hours ago, sailingbill said:

R2R you do well to consider this.    First retiring to Thailand is a dream few guys realize. I have never been so happy.  As to the question this a long shot but would your job give you the possibility of working for the Feds or State even part time. After 5 years retire with BCBS which covers 100% in patient cost.  I was in Bumrungrad for a week and over 200,000 baht covered 100%. I think $200 usd/ month premium, doesnt go up with age. Over the years we had staff ,lawyers , watermen , farmers that came on not caring what job they took.  More realistically did you serve in the Military? Manila will cover Tricare and only a 5 hour flight.  The other option is i have friends who have been here for 20 years and self insured. That typically does not work to well anymore because of higher costs. What they have done is discover much cheaper alternatives in public or military hospitals.Still excellent care.

Thank you for the information. A Fed or State job is an interesting possibility if the option is there. I'll have to look into it. I was in the military as well not retired but will also look into that.

12 hours ago, Broughton said:

I’m no expert on this but obviously it’s a topic we all will consider at some point in time.

I somehow come across this video on YouTube no doubt somebody on here will have view on it one way or another but on the face of it it doesn’t seem too bad on the other hand it could be a complete rip off.

 

Thank you for the video it was very informative. He chose Pacific Cross. I got an estimate for Pacific Cross with reasonable coverage and for late 50's the yearly cost was only around $500 a year, but at age 67 it skyrockets to $2800 a year. 

[Broughton 497]

8 hours ago, Ready2Retire said:

only around $500 a year, but at age 67 it skyrockets to $2800 a year. 

Would you mind to share what was covered to that looks very reasonable. I never got as far as getting a quote.

Be interesting to hear if anybody else has any experience with this company ?

[Ready2Retire 0]

19 hours ago, forcebwithu said:

What you'll want to get is an expat policy which has requirements for how long you have to be out of your home country for the policy to remain in force. So that precludes you from purchasing expat health insurance to far in advance of your move. My policy with IMG Insurance has this to say on eligibility.

This plan is available to individuals and families of all nationalities. U.S. citizens must plan to be residing outside U.S. on or before their effective date and renewal dates, for at least six (6) out of the next 12 months. Additional eligibility restrictions apply to non-U.S. citizens residing in the U.S. Persons from the ages of 14 days to 74 years old may apply for coverage, and coverage ends at age 75. Persons 75 years of age and older are not eligible for coverage. Please see a sample contract for further details.

I did pony up the relatively small extra cost for worldwide coverage, including visits back to the US.

The link below is to one of several topics about health insurance.

 

Thank you for the information. It looks like that answers my question about getting insurance far ahead of moving over, pretty much a no. 

I am concerned about no coverage for over 75 years of age, is that normal? What happens when you turn 75 in Thailand, are you pretty much on your own? That's scary unless you have a good support network.

10 hours ago, Broughton said:

Would you mind to share what was covered to that looks very reasonable. I never got as far as getting a quote.

Be interesting to hear if anybody else has any experience with this company ?

In doing a search online, I saw many references to Mister Prakan which is an insurance broker so I used their quote function.

The cheapest quote for a 57 year old for Pacific Cross was 14,670 baht. Following are what is covered:

• Worldwide coverage excluding USA
• No deductible
• Maximum coverage 270,000/year per disability
• Personal accident, 100,000
• No outpatient
• Inpatient, multiple benefits including room and board, 2000 baht/day max 45 days. Intensive and coronary care room and board, 4000 baht/day max 15 days, Surgical fee 200,000
• No dental/vision
• No maternity
• Fully indemnified for medical evacuation/repatriation

If you want outpatient benefits 1000 baht/visit, then it increases to 18,377 baht per year.

However, that 270,000 year doesn't seem that much considering the Thai government raised their yearly benefit for those on the social security scheme to 1 million baht. If you increase coverage to 3 million baht, then the yearly premimum for Pacific Cross goes to around 47,083 baht per year or around $1569 USD/year. 

As with anything in life it's a gamble I think in how much coverage you think you may need.

 

[jacko 8,786]

33 minutes ago, Ready2Retire said:

Thank you for the information. It looks like that answers my question about getting insurance far ahead of moving over, pretty much a no. 

I am concerned about no coverage for over 75 years of age, is that normal? What happens when you turn 75 in Thailand, are you pretty much on your own? That's scary unless you have a good support network

Not necessarily. I believe some Europeans (eg Scandinavians and yes Americans) can sometimes have some worldwide cover from their home countries, worth it's weight in gold if it provides comprehensive cover. Maybe these are all courtesy of their former employment. Other that that I would expect that you are correct.... go see an insurance broker when you get here. 

Over 75 years you can have cover, but that cover will usually be with a company you were with prior... they limit new customers to a certain age. But it is an expensive item some forego. Many 'self insure', ie keep a healthy bank balance to cover eventualities. Certain Visa types actually require this too, a healthy maintained bank balance, that actually you are not meant to spend on anything oddly enough. There is also a visa class that requires medical insurance... both of these associated with what is called a retirement extension, how many live here. Another topic.......

[sailingbill 1,015]

Good for you to do the research. I may have skin in the game since i have an O-A and and my next extension will require Thai insurance even though my Fed health insurance is excellent. Also with the new American administration  "Medicare for all" may void my current coverage. So we are interested in what you find.    Giving a first hand account of experience ,my friend in Bangkok is a visa agent and had a client here in Pattaya. They were going to refuse ER care but my friend said he would pay. The fellow ended up in ICU , very sick and had to transfer 20,000 Baht per day. I was asked to see him and give an opinion on transferring to a Bangkok Hospital which i had a contact and would take his insurance. His insurance turned out was shit as he did not understand it .Despite a strong effort from the Physician  he could not be moved.  So continue diligence on this.  I may take exception to the advice of not getting insurance before you retire here. USA companies have to cover you. But since you are healthy getting a Thai policy now may protect you from the pre existing clause in the future. But a big may.

[Bazle 1,455]

33 minutes ago, BENJI said:

I see Petals is running a gofundme campaign for a moderator on Pattaya addicts that has had a stroke apparently. Donations can be made directly to Petals PayPal account.

Why bother with Health insurance when u can just set up a gofundme when something goes wrong.

(I thought it better to respond to the comment above here, rather than in the thread in which it was posted.)

People do not take health insurance for a variety of reasons - some of which, IMO, are very justifiable

Some people have health issues which mean that they cannot get insurance, or it is prohibitively expensive.

Some (including me) looked into it and decided that the maximum cover was pretty pathetic, and the cover did not warrant the premiums being asked. "Self insurance" was a better option.

Some are simply choosing to spend their money (of which many probably don't have too much) in different ways.

I've no idea about the personal circumstances of the Addicts moderator, except that it was posted that his income had dried up over the last two years because of Covid. 

[jacko 8,786]

Reply to a post elsewhere.....

Insurance that is available in Thailand I would generalize as not good value.... that is me being diplomatic. If it were made compulsory it would very likely get worse... and they may even restrict it to domestic suppliers. 

Self insurance is an excellent alternative, giving flexibility and no exclusions on pre-existing conditions. But it needs to be serious... say 2 million baht put away. We hear so many examples of people needing to go begging or 'Fundme'...  

I am not surprised, I ask around and many Expats do not carry insurance. I have a policy, but it is rubbish, and just had a load of exclusions added as pre-existing. They got their hands on my medical records and details of a thorough check-up I had near a decade ago...never knew I was so poorly!

[Gary 4,108]

The health care insurance policy was for a maximum payout of 1,25 million baht. I just couldn't see paying the huge premiums. Since I can cover more than that, I could see no reason to make that company any more money. All the years I had that policy, I had one claim for an appendectomy. They did pay with no questions asked. They did deduct one item. It was for a Coke for my wife.

[Rawhide2 1,338]

At the risk of getting another 2 red marks (I know who is doing it rest assured) I still cant see the logic of self insurance because of the 3 biggies I mentioned before Stroke Heart attack or Trauma

Especially if you're single just tell me who is going to access your "nest egg" when you're in a Coma ?? ICU's are mega expensive no matter what country you are in. 1 Million baht stashed will not last very long

As someone who has had cancer (and using it as an example ) if I suddenly started pissing blood again I know the reason. Pack your bags straight to airport and 1 way trip home using out of interest £1000 thats been sat in an emergency account since 2002 for that exact reason

Any number of pre existing conditions we have and you can abort back home

How do you do that though with the three biggies I mention ??  You need that business card in your pocket with another one in a prominent position in Condo/Hotel so that whoever finds you can (hopefully) do the business in double quick time and get you sorted  ??

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Rawhide2

[nkped 1,208]

5 hours ago, Rawhide2 said:

At the risk of getting another 2 red marks (I know who is doing it rest assured) I still cant see the logic of self insurance because of the 3 biggies I mentioned before Stroke Heart attack or Trauma

Especially if you're single just tell me who is going to access your "nest egg" when you're in a Coma ?? ICU's are mega expensive no matter what country you are in. 1 Million baht stashed will not last very long

As someone who has had cancer (and using it as an example ) if I suddenly started pissing blood again I know the reason. Pack your bags straight to airport and 1 way trip home using out of interest £1000 thats been sat in an emergency account since 2002 for that exact reason

Any number of pre existing conditions we have and you can abort back home

How do you do that though with the three biggies I mention ??  You need that business card in your pocket with another one in a prominent position in Condo/Hotel so that whoever finds you can (hopefully) do the business in double quick time and get you sorted  ??

 

Partial answer, high limit credit card as part of your out the door kit.

[Gary 4,108]

Having health insurance sounds great, BUT, Health insurance is simply not available for us old farts. What will we do if it is mandatory? I  have lived here full time for 26 years. Is the government going to throw me out after all these years when they know no company will insure us?

[aj 59]

At the risk of being flamed here is my take on it. Been here 30 plus years and in so far as the big three listed above. 99.9% of the time all you will need is 

burial/ cremation /death certificate money. i can only think of 2 people who actually made it to hospital. 1 million plus on both. is that alot? depends on rates. one at 48 the other at 30. If you are in that .1% then you may want to think about it. If not your dead. let the family sort it out. My brain aneurism i suffered back here 18 months ago 

cost 1,009,996.43 USD. Before insurance. 20,000 USD after. I know that is pocket change for most members here. The question should maybe be if you survive can you afford it? As for everyday non-emergency things. then maybe not.

[aj 59]

I think they will set up Thai insurance company for us old farts.( at very affordably rates of course.)

i guess we will know when it happens. to answer your question. in a heartbeat farang.