Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[Samsonite 181]

What will the next schedule call for delivery when this one is scrapped ? The downturn may buy them time anyway.

At this point only a major problem will delay the schedule, but, even if that were to happen, you can be sure there won't be two years between first flight and delivery as there was with the AFC-380 (Airbust Flying Citroen).

Edited April 8, 2009 by Scalawag

[BigDUSA 71]

Overweight and stuck in the US .........

 

Sounds like someone with a underweight pension who was stuck in KL for 11 weeks working in a desperate attempt to top it up.

[jacko 8,813]

Sounds like someone with a underweight pension who was stuck in KL for 11 weeks working in a desperate attempt to top it up.

Nice to hear sympathy for all of us who have lost 30% of the value of our income in baht terms, and 100% of our income from account interest.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Nice to hear sympathy for all of us who have lost 30% of the value of our income in baht terms, and 100% of our income from account interest.

 

Jacko,

 

Unfortunately, BigD hasn't got a clue about my financial arrangements, nor what I was actually doing in KL, let alone what I actually do in LOS.

[eltib 54]

The 787, the most successful launch ever at Boeing, has received more than 800 firm orders. So far this year, there have been no new 787 orders, and 32 cancellations.

 

 

Golly Gee... I wonder why? Maybe the airlines are having reservations about Boeing's new flying machine ever taking to the wild blue yonder.

[jacko 8,813]

Golly Gee... I wonder why? Maybe the airlines are having reservations about Boeing's new flying machine ever taking to the wild blue yonder.

Which is kinda what 'launch' means to me, rather than a light bulb going on somewhere in a Seattle office.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Problems for both in these tough times.

 

From The TimesApril 23, 2009

 

Boeing and Airbus lose orders as airlines cut back

 

David Robertson

Boeing lost more aircraft orders than it gained during the first three months of this year as struggling airlines cut spending.

 

The American aerospace group said that it had booked orders for 28 new aircraft but lost 32. Profits in the first quarter of this year halved to $610 million (£420 million).

 

 

 

Airbus, the European aircraft manufacturer, sold 22 aircraft in the first quarter but lost orders for 14.

 

 

The large number of cancellations experienced by the two leading aircraft manufacturers reflects the difficulties faced by airlines as carriers cut capacity and defer new plane orders after a collapse in passenger demand.

 

Airbus predicted at the start of this year that it could book orders of 300 to 400 aircraft but many analysts now think that that is an impossible target. The company took 777 orders last year, compared with Boeing's 662.

[Samsonite 181]

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/...rst-flight.html

 

"DATE:23/04/09

SOURCE:Flight International

Boeing 787 programme tempo accelerates towards first flight target

By Jon Ostrower

 

Boeing has accelerated the pace of the 787 programme as it targets a first flight by the end of June. Key milestones required for the maiden sortie have been completed, but questions remain about the production ramp-up effort.

 

The airframer completed the factory gauntlet on 20 April, the first of three closed-loop simulations tests, marking the hand-off of 787 prototype "ZA001" to the flight-test team. Programme sources indicate that the factory "gauntlet test" was accomplished faster than anticipated.

 

In addition, the static-test airframe also conducted its third and final pre-first-flight requirement on 21 April, with the wings being flexed to limit load, ie 100% of the load expected to be seen in service. Boeing emphasises that analysis of the test, which saw the wings pushed 20-30% beyond limit load towards ultimate load, is ongoing, but appears positive.

 

March 09 787 Line

© Boeing

 

Structural components for the first production aircraft - the seventh airframe that had been designated ZA007 but is now dubbed ZA100 - have begun arriving at the assembly line in Everett, Washington, and include the wings and aft fuselage. The designation for first production 787 was changed after Japanese airlines assumed control of many early delivery slots from Chinese carriers.

 

Other tests ahead for ZA001 in the near term include final landing-gear swing tests before it is moved to the flight line for the intermediate gauntlet trial, which will see the 787 fuelled for the first runs of the Hamilton Sundstrand APS 5000 auxiliary power unit and Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines.

 

Boeing says all hardware and software is ready to support a first flight later in the second quarter as currently scheduled, although some industry analysts are sceptical, suggesting that the event could slip in July.

 

Boeing chief executive Jim McNerney expressed confidence in the programme schedule during the company's quarterly earnings call on 22 April, as it progresses toward flight testing, roughly 22 months later than originally planned.

 

However, the airframer is still being pressed about its production ramp-up plan and whether or not its fragile supply chain can perform to the level of demand. Ron Epstein, analyst for Bank of America/Merrill Lynch recently questioned the plan, citing build times of over 300 days for centre fuselage sections by Global Aeronautica.

 

McNerney reaffirmed that Boeing's 50% purchase of the North Charleston, South Carolina facility has added "significant" production stability and the integrator is no longer a "bottleneck" for the programme. However, McNerney cautioned that Boeing is a year away from evaluating 787 production rates following the initial deliveries as it gauges global demand for the new long-range twinjet in the wake of the current economic turmoil, leaving the door open for a future readjustment."

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/...rst-flight.html

*******

"Photo: A peek at ZA001

By Jon Ostrower

on April 21, 2009 3:17 PM

Dreamliner Composite 1_1000.jpgConsummate airplane spotter Liz Matzelle somehow managed to squeeze out a really neat composite photo through the open cracks of Building 40-24 this morning. The result of her largely inexplicable photography efforts are above. You can "clearly" see ZA001 in Building 40-24, which will be jacked up off of its landing gear for today's swing tests."

 

Photo Credit Liz Matzelle

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

***************

 

"The Road to 787 First Flight - April 21 - ZY997 completes pre-first flight tests

By Jon Ostrower

on April 21, 2009 11:40 PM

 

 

Boeing's pace towards 787 first flight continues to accelerate as the static test airframe has completed the third and final pre-flight test required for ZA001 to fly, Boeing confirms.

 

On Tuesday, Boeing completed limit load testing which flexed the wings of ZY997 to a deflection of over 17 feet (120-130%), considerably exceeding the test requirement which only called for the wing to be flexed to 100% of limit loads a 787 would encounter in service, says a source familiar with the testing.

 

Boeing says the test flexed the wings to an equivalent of 2.5 times the force of gravity.

 

The previous two required tests included:

 

* High-blow testing, which raised the internal pressure to 14.9 lbs. per square inch gauge (psig) and was completed on September 27, 2008.

 

* 1G check out, which deflected the wings to nearly 10 feet, checking for interferences in the flight control surfaces and was completed on March 20, 2009.

 

Today's test was used to further check for possible interferences of the movable flight control surfaces of the wing as well.

 

ZY997 has spent nearly a year entangled in the blue metal frame of the static test rig in Building 40-23 as ZY997's structure has been systematically tortured to find the outer limits of the Dreamliner's structural strength.

 

Later in the certification campaign, Boeing will conduct the ultimate load test, bending the wings to one and a half times, or 150% of limit load, to satisfy FAA safety requirements.

 

Boeing has not yet decided if it plans to bend the wings to critical load, demonstrating the conditions that would destroy the wing, a force greater than 150% of limit load."

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

Edited April 23, 2009 by Scalawag

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

This saga must be trying for you.

 

Boeing chief executive Jim McNerney expressed confidence in the programme schedule during the company's quarterly earnings call on 22 April, as it progresses toward flight testing, roughly 22 months later than originally planned.

 

However, McNerney cautioned that Boeing is a year away from evaluating 787 production rates following the initial deliveries as it gauges global demand for the new long-range twinjet in the wake of the current economic turmoil, leaving the door open for a future readjustment."

 

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner is expected to make its first flight in August of 2007 with delivery starting in 2008.

[Samsonite 181]

"...leaving the door open for a future readjustment."

He was talking about production rates.

You really do have a very serious reading comprehension disorder.

[Samsonite 181]

On the way to the fueling dock for its first load of jP4, or are they calling it avgas these days?

Won't be long now. Official schedule calls for first flight by the end of June, but it could be sooner.

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2009 by Scalawag

[Samsonite 181]

Boeing 787, originally uploaded by Charles Conklin.

 

Just hours after Dreamliner One vacated Paint Hangar 45-03 across from Boeing's Everett factory, Dreamliner Two filled the open spot to receive its first coat of paint.

Looking like things are finally working the way they were suppose to a couple of years ago.

 

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

Edited May 4, 2009 by Scalawag

[wacmedia 277]

Looking like things are finally working the way they were suppose to a couple of years ago.

 

Hi,

 

You are a man of great optimism.

[Samsonite 181]

You are a man of great optimism.

Well, the first three are off the assembly line.

Number one is complete and on the flight line undergoing fueling tests and they should be firing up the engines any day now.

Number two is being painted in the livery of the launch customer ANA.

Number three is in the 747 hanger where they are working on the interior. It will be used for

whatever tests are necessary of the "standard interior" and will probably be the last of the six test aircraft to fly.

The first 4 are fitted with RR engines and the next two will have GE powerplants. Number five is being fitted with its GE engines as we speak.

The assembly of number 7 will start soon.

So, barring anything catastrophic, I think it is time to optimistic, for a change.

:)

Edited May 5, 2009 by Scalawag

[TheFiend 1,181]

Scally........ you seem to have missed this one about the Nightmareliner!

 

 

Bernstein Research sees further 787 delays, bigger range shortfall

Monday May 4, 2009

 

 

Boeing's 787 customers face delivery delays of up to an additional six months, according to a report issued Friday by New York-based Bernstein Research that also suggest a 10%-15% range shortfall for early delivery aircraft.

 

The May 1 client report, a wrapup after Boeing's 787 certification briefing on April 29 (ATWOnline, April 30), is Bernstein's sixth reassessment of 787 production and forecasts that the manufacturer will not reach its target production rate of 10 aircraft per month until mid-2013, six months later than the latest target (ATWOnline, Feb. 9).

 

Bernstein warned that it is "not comfortable with assuming that [boeing] will achieve its goal of making first delivery in Q1 2010 to All Nippon Airways, and even less comfortable assuming a production rate of 10 per month by the end of 2012," and has thus "stretched the time from first flight to the target production rate by an additional six months, with production rates reaching six per month at the end of 2012 and reaching 10 per month in mid-2013." At its April 29 briefing, Boeing reiterated its plan to fly the 787 by June 30.

 

The report also expressed concern about the effect on production rates of the redesign required to address weight issues. Bernstein said it understands from customer and supplier discussions that the first production 787s are likely to be roughly 8% overweight, with range 10%-15% less than promised. "That will translate into a range near 6,900 nm., well below the promised 7,700-8,200 nm. range," it claimed.

 

"These values are worse than for most development programs and suggest that substantial redesign work will be necessary. . .but the Tier 1 suppliers have not yet validated their production capacities with the new production technology, and if substantial redesign is needed to reduce weight, it will further complicate a rapid increase in delivery rates," the report added.

 

In more bad news Bernstein cast doubt on the ambitious certification timeline for the 787, which it termed "challenging." It warned that the program involves substantial changes in materials, systems and manufacturing technology, creating many opportunities for surprises to emerge during the test program. "There will also be the challenge of getting all six aircraft ready for testing as planned," it said. Boeing was unable to respond to the report by publication deadline.

 

by Geoffrey Thomas

[Samsonite 181]

Scally........ you seem to have missed this one about the Nightmareliner!

Nope. Saw it, read it, and was waiting for you, or wacky, or cPom to bring it up.

If you followed this as closely as you might like other to believe you would know there is nothing new in Bernstein's report except in their opinion, it will take longer to certify the plane than Boeing has scheduled.

The weight issue has been known for a year, maybe a little longer, but nothing will really be known until they get the aircraft in the air and see how it performs.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Nope. Saw it, read it, and was waiting for you, or wacky, or cPom to bring it up.

If you followed this as closely as you might like other to believe you would know there is nothing new in Bernstein's report except in their opinion, it will take longer to certify the plane than Boeing has scheduled.

The weight issue has been known for a year, maybe a little longer, but nothing will really be known until they get the aircraft in the air and see how it performs.

 

We're probably getting bored reminding you of your "on time and to spec" fantasies.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Nope. Saw it, read it, and was waiting for you, or wacky, or cPom to bring it up.

If you followed this as closely as you might like other to believe you would know there is nothing new in Bernstein's report except in their opinion, it will take longer to certify the plane than Boeing has scheduled.

The weight issue has been known for a year, maybe a little longer, but nothing will really be known until they get the aircraft in the air and see how it performs.

 

Boeing have been consistently wrong with their projections for the timescale for the Nightmareliner, so do you really think certification will be completed within their "schedule"?

 

And until the plane flies, nobody knows how it will perform and how much an issue the weight problem will respect to the performance figures.

[wacmedia 277]

Boeing have been consistently wrong with their projections for the timescale for the Nightmareliner, so do you really think certification will be completed within their "schedule"?

 

And until the plane flies, nobody knows how it will perform and how much an issue the weight problem will respect to the performance figures.

 

Hi,

 

The only positive I can see is that in the current climate there is no mad rush for new planes.

[eltib 54]

And until the plane flies, nobody knows how it will perform and how much an issue the weight problem will respect to the performance figures.

 

[Samsonite 181]

...The weight issue has been known for a year, maybe a little longer, but nothing will really be known until they get the aircraft in the air and see how it performs.

 

...And until the plane flies, nobody knows how it will perform and how much an issue the weight problem will respect to the performance figures.

 

Isn't that exactly what I said?

[TheFiend 1,181]

The weight issue has been known for a year, maybe a little longer, but nothing will really be known until they get the aircraft in the air and see how it performs.

 

And until the plane flies, nobody knows how it will perform and how much an issue the weight problem will respect to the performance figures.

 

Isn't that exactly what I said?

 

Not exactly word for word..... is it????

[Samsonite 181]

Not exactly word for word..... is it????

Ok, mr. pedantic, here is a news story just you. :)

 

"DATE:06/05/09

SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence news

Airbus cuts A380 production rates again

By David Kaminski-Morrow

 

Airbus is further cutting production rates for its A380 from 18 to 14 this year, in response to customer requests for deferrals during the current economic crisis.

 

The airframer in January had already revised downwards its A380 production plan for 2009 from 21 deliveries to 18.

 

Airbus is also committing only to delivering "more than 20" of the double-deck aircraft in 2010.

 

"Onward production rates and deliveries are dependent on airline demand and availability of customer financing," says the manufacturer.

 

Airbus says it will take "mitigating actions" against the "negative effects" of the revised A380 production plan on cash flow.

 

But it says there will be "no significant impact" on earnings as a result.

 

Airbus has already disclosed its intention to reduce production rates of the A320 family from 36 to 34 per month from October, while production of the A330/340 family is currently at 8.5 per month.

 

Development of the A350 XWB, it adds, is continuing "with full speed"."

ttp://www.flightglobal.com/home/default.aspx

Edited May 7, 2009 by Scalawag

[TheFiend 1,181]

In view of the current global economic situation it is probably the right move. Some of the deliveries scheduled during 2009/10 have been deferred, so the delivery rate is being adjusted to compensate.

 

Notice.... deliveries are getting deferred.... not cancelled.

[wacmedia 277]

Boeing have been consistently wrong with their projections for the timescale for the Nightmareliner, so do you really think certification will be completed within their "schedule"?

 

And until the plane flies, nobody knows how it will perform and how much an issue the weight problem will respect to the performance figures.

 

Hi,

 

I've been sceptical from the start about this plane. Must say even I've been surprised how big a mess they've made of it. Whats happened to the company that produced the 747 ?