Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[TheFiend 1,181]

How long did it take to overcome the problem and at what cost?

 

A380 first delivery was delayed 20 months.

 

Didn't you brag the Nightmareliner would fly in 2007? Boeing are still having problems, and it still hasn't flown. Boeing are still claiming it will fly this year and yet the wing fix design hasn't been completed or even proven on the static frame. With only 9 1/2 weeks remaining this year it is looking less and less likely.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

How long did it take to overcome the problem and at what cost?

 

First flight wasn't delayed at all. First dellivery - 20 months.

 

 

Quotes of the week ......

 

How sweet it is. Once again American ingenuity and manufacturing prowess comes to the fore.

 

Without the subcontractors delivering quality parts on time the Dreamliner would be a pile of parts sitting on the assembly line.

 

Billions of Euros down the drain and years of delay

 

Once Boeing sent over competent American engineers and they put a foot up the butt of the EU engineers they started to send over a more completed product.

 

Power on is 100% successful and Boeing has 896 orders for this plane. Not bad for a plane that has never flown.

 

Boeing engineers are the lead designers and have a deep understanding of how to handle composites from years of experience working with them on other aircraft programs.

 

I wonder if the Airbus engineers realized they don't have the technological capability to work with composites on such a large scale and deliver the plane on time? Maybe they should ask Boeing to 'loan' them the engineers who have the skills necessary to handle this?

 

Looks like Boeing has a good handle on 'theething propblems" with the 787. Still on with the July 8 roll out.

 

Hats off to the Boeing engineers.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Will the 787 be flying in August 2007 as suggested by the OP ?

 

Yes.

 

And the correct answer was NO

[CheshireTom 1,377]

And the correct answer was NO

 

Fucking typical for you, Mr Fiend. Always taking quotes out of context.

[eltib 54]

Take note

 

 

 

 

[BigDUSA 71]

Fucking typical for you, Mr Fiend. Always taking quotes out of context.

 

You got it wrong tommie, your the asshole that takes quotes out of context.

[BigDUSA 71]

Boeing is pointing increasingly to a late December first flight target for the 787 as it awaits completion of validation tests of the side-of-body modification that prevented the initial flight taking place in late June.

 

Preparations for the flight remain on hold until validation tests on static test airframe ZY997 are finished. Even then there’s more waiting to go through while Boeing and the FAA evaluate the results and confirm the design meets the required goals.

 

Although Boeing isn’t discussing the details of the static testing schedule, the implications are that pre-flight activity (gauntlet tests) could be getting underway around the end of November with the first flight window being Dec. 17-24. If more issues crop up, the company still has the remaining week in December to achieve its target of flying by yearend.

[Al_Davis 28]

Take note

 

 

 

 

 

 

So true and right for the times. Sterling was a genius writer, 5:30 mark of the video says it all.

[eltib 54]

So true and right for the times. Sterling was a genius writer, 5:30 mark of the video says it all.

 

They are so concerned with short term profits, (instead of long term growth) that they literally kill their company. Yes I agree, that is what is happening now. A trickle down economy.

Edited November 12, 2009 by eltib

[eltib 54]

Boeing is pointing increasingly to a late December first flight target for the 787 as it awaits completion of validation tests of the side-of-body modification that prevented the initial flight taking place in late June.

 

Preparations for the flight remain on hold until validation tests on static test airframe ZY997 are finished. Even then there’s more waiting to go through while Boeing and the FAA evaluate the results and confirm the design meets the required goals.

 

Although Boeing isn’t discussing the details of the static testing schedule, the implications are that pre-flight activity (gauntlet tests) could be getting underway around the end of November with the first flight window being Dec. 17-24. If more issues crop up, the company still has the remaining week in December to achieve its target of flying by yearend.

 

Wanna bet another issue pops up next month, delaying the first flight to 2010?

[wacmedia 277]

Wanna bet another issue pops up next month, delaying the first flight to 2010?

 

Hi,

 

I'm sure the management have everything under control.

[BigDUSA 71]

Boeing said Friday its new 787 Dreamliner aircraft remains on track for its first test flight by the end of the year and that a problem noted in a news report had been "resolved."

 

The aerospace giant commented after the Wall Street Journal reported it discovered a new issue with the composite material in the plane's wings as it reinforced an area of the fuselage of the aircraft.

 

The Journal said metal bolts inside the wings of one of the six test airplanes were found to have slightly damaged the surrounding material.

 

"The issue raised in the article has been resolved," a Boeing spokesman told AFP. "We are progressing well toward first flight and are on track to fly by the end of the year."

 

Boeing had announced on June 23 a fifth delay in the 787 Dreamliner program to fix a structural problem.

 

Boeing launched the Dreamliner program in April 2004 and initially had planned to deliver the first airplane to Japanese carrier All Nippon Airways in the first half of 2008.

[joekicker 53]

"The issue raised in the article has been resolved," a Boeing spokesman told AFP. "We are progressing well toward first flight and are on track to fly by the end of the year."

 

Oh, well, then, if a Boeing spokesman says it!

 

I'm not shooting the messenger BidD, but I hope no one is swallowing this guff without a handy chaser nearby, along with a large container of salt.

 

.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Boeing seem to be getting ready to announce a further delay. "We’re driving the schedule but we’re not schedule-driven"

 

Boeing to test fly Dreamliner by year’s end

By Pilita Clark in Dubai

 

Published: November 15 2009 17:42 | Last updated: November 15 2009 17:42

The first test flight of Boeing’s much-delayed Dreamliner 787 aircraft is still on track for the end of the year but will not be driven by deadlines, the new head of the company’s commercial aircraft division said on Sunday.

 

“We’re driving the schedule but we’re not schedule-driven,” said Jim Albaugh, formerly Boeing’s defence and space business chief.

 

 

 

The first flight of the Dreamliner, dubbed the 'Dream On Liner' by some in the industry, is more than two years overdue

 

Based on everything we see, we’re going to fly this year,” he told the Financial Times at the Dubai air show. “But I’ve spent a lot of time in the rocket business and the last thing in the world you want to have is launch fever: trying to launch something just because you have the deadline. We’re going to fly this airplane when it’s ready.”

 

The first flight of the Dreamliner, dubbed the “Dream On Liner” by some in the industry, is more than two years overdue and has led to consternation within Boeing and among some of the airlines which have ordered it.

 

The 787, which is being billed as a much lighter, more technically advanced and more fuel efficient carrier than any commercial aircraft ever built, has attracted more than 900 gross orders since 2004.

 

But 70 of Boeing’s 111 cancellations this year were for the 787 and some customers – such as Oman Air – have warned they would look at going to Airbus if there are further delays.

 

Mr Albaugh, who recently replaced Scott Carson, who had overseen the 787 since 2006, said he understood the frustration of customers.

 

“I think some of the criticism we’re getting is warranted,” he said.

 

“That said, we’re going to fly the airplane when it’s ready and when we deliver the airplane it will be an airplane I know our customers will like.”

 

Mr Albaugh’s move to Boeing’s commercial division came after several other senior defence executives moved into prominent positions at that unit, largely to oversee the Dreamliner and another new aircraft programme, the 747-8.

 

Mr Albaugh said that while Boeing’s commercial division had a fine record as a manufacturer, the defence unit had far more experience with the complex development required for an aircraft such as 787, which has a much larger amount of lighter composite materials than normally used in commercial planes.

 

“We do things for the first time all the time in defence and I think we really understand how to manage the complexities of development programmes and if you look at Boeing commercial, where you only do a development programme every decade or so, I think you lose some of those capability and some of the knowledge. I think that’s the reason Jim [McNerney, Boeing’s chairman and chief executive] asked me and others to come over.”

 

Mr McNerney publicly conceded last month that Boeing’s move to outsource more of the work on the 787 than it had done with previous new aircraft had led to problems, and helped the company post a $1.56bn loss for the third quarter.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Shareholders Say Boeing Pumped Stock Price By Concealing Defects in 787 Dreamliner

By A.E. YOUNG

 

 

CHICAGO (CN) -Boeing inflated its share price by concealing a structural defect in its "eagerly awaited" 787 Dreamliner, misrepresenting the plane's test results and the company's ability to meet deadlines for the maiden flight and commercial delivery, shareholders say in a federal class action.

When Boeing finally revealed the truth, its stock price dropped by 12 percent in two days, the class claims.

The shareholders say Boeing had suffered scheduling problems and canceled orders, but issued a misleading press release to forestall more cancellations as orders for the competing Airbus A380 were growing.

The class claims that Boeing concealed problems with the 787's design that would delay the maiden flight and delivery. It issued the allegedly misleading press release so it could "make a positive presentation concerning the test results for the 787 and the schedule for the first flight and delivery of the 787 at the Paris Air Show" in June 2008, where it would compete for orders with Airbus, according to the complaint.

The press release had its desired effect, the class claims, and the price of Boeing common stock rose immediately by 2.4 percent, to close at $41.77.

The stock price continued to rise as Boeing touted "steady progress" toward a maiden flight and completion of the intermediate "gauntlet phase" of testing, which simulates flight conditions and multiple systems failures.

Boeing also claimed final assembly had begun on the first plane destined for delivery, and continued to veil the defect and its repercussions, the complaint alleges.

When it suddenly, and belatedly, disclosed the defect and delays, and confessed prior knowledge of the problems, its "lack of timely candor" and lack of a revised schedule caused an immediate drop in its stock price, shareholders say.

A key paragraph in the 27-page complaint states: "As the date for the maiden flight of the 787 approached, defendants made a series of misleading statements to the market concerning the results of the testing process for the 787 and Boeing's ability to meet the schedule for the first flight and the delivery of the 787. Defendants made these false and misleading statements in an effort to: (a) forestall further cancellations of orders for the 787, particularly as the orders for its competition, the A380, were gaining ground; ( conceal from the market the material fact, known to defendants, that the 787 had a structural problem in its design that would prevent the first flight of the 787 by June 30, 2009, and delivery in the first quarter of 2010; and © enable Boeing to make a positive presentation concerning the test results for the 787 and the schedule for the first flight and delivery of the 787 at the Paris Air Show, scheduled for June 15-18, 2009, at which Boeing hoped to receive additional orders for the 787 and beat out the showing made by Airbus for its A380."

The class accuses Boeing and its executives W. James McNerney, Jr. and Scott E. Carson of securities violations. They seek class certification, compensatory damages and costs, and are represented by Marvin Miller.

[eltib 54]

“We’re driving the schedule but we’re not schedule-driven,” said Jim Albaugh, formerly Boeing’s defence and space business chief.

 

One of my coworkers who was an inspector, that bumped down to a janitor asked the jerk.

 

"When are you going to get some work so I can go back to work as an inspector?"

 

His response was "Be happy you have a job." This was back in 2003 or 2004.

 

She was laid off in June, and now has retired, because she got her 85 points in before being laid off.

 

Fucking Albaugh is an idiot that should have stayed at the Plutonium plant he worked at. If they want results they should fire McNerny, and hire back Alan Mulally. At least Alan knew commercial airplanes, for he did it all his adult life.

Edited November 19, 2009 by eltib

[eltib 54]

Shareholders Say Boeing Pumped Stock Price By Concealing Defects in 787 Dreamliner

By A.E. YOUNG

 

 

CHICAGO (CN) -Boeing inflated its share price by concealing a structural defect in its "eagerly awaited" 787 Dreamliner, misrepresenting the plane's test results and the company's ability to meet deadlines for the maiden flight and commercial delivery, shareholders say in a federal class action.

When Boeing finally revealed the truth, its stock price dropped by 12 percent in two days, the class claims.

The shareholders say Boeing had suffered scheduling problems and canceled orders, but issued a misleading press release to forestall more cancellations as orders for the competing Airbus A380 were growing.

The class claims that Boeing concealed problems with the 787's design that would delay the maiden flight and delivery. It issued the allegedly misleading press release so it could "make a positive presentation concerning the test results for the 787 and the schedule for the first flight and delivery of the 787 at the Paris Air Show" in June 2008, where it would compete for orders with Airbus, according to the complaint.

The press release had its desired effect, the class claims, and the price of Boeing common stock rose immediately by 2.4 percent, to close at $41.77.

The stock price continued to rise as Boeing touted "steady progress" toward a maiden flight and completion of the intermediate "gauntlet phase" of testing, which simulates flight conditions and multiple systems failures.

Boeing also claimed final assembly had begun on the first plane destined for delivery, and continued to veil the defect and its repercussions, the complaint alleges.

When it suddenly, and belatedly, disclosed the defect and delays, and confessed prior knowledge of the problems, its "lack of timely candor" and lack of a revised schedule caused an immediate drop in its stock price, shareholders say.

A key paragraph in the 27-page complaint states: "As the date for the maiden flight of the 787 approached, defendants made a series of misleading statements to the market concerning the results of the testing process for the 787 and Boeing's ability to meet the schedule for the first flight and the delivery of the 787. Defendants made these false and misleading statements in an effort to: (a) forestall further cancellations of orders for the 787, particularly as the orders for its competition, the A380, were gaining ground; ( conceal from the market the material fact, known to defendants, that the 787 had a structural problem in its design that would prevent the first flight of the 787 by June 30, 2009, and delivery in the first quarter of 2010; and © enable Boeing to make a positive presentation concerning the test results for the 787 and the schedule for the first flight and delivery of the 787 at the Paris Air Show, scheduled for June 15-18, 2009, at which Boeing hoped to receive additional orders for the 787 and beat out the showing made by Airbus for its A380."

The class accuses Boeing and its executives W. James McNerney, Jr. and Scott E. Carson of securities violations. They seek class certification, compensatory damages and costs, and are represented by Marvin Miller.

 

Oh goody, looks like I may see some money someday if it goes to court.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Good news for Airbus.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8366858.stm

 

Airbus beats Boeing at air show

 

 

Plane maker Airbus has received more than five times the orders by value of US rival Boeing at the Dubai air show.

 

Airbus received $5.3bn (£3.2bn) in orders and letters of intent, against two orders worth $800m from Boeing.

 

"We had a good air show, better than many expected," said Airbus chief operating officer John Leahy.

 

But sales are down sharply from the last time the biennial show was held in 2007, when they received a combined $75bn in orders and letters of intent.

 

Mr Leahy said this was a reflection of the sluggish global economy.

 

"Our industry is not out of the woods yet. There will be a difficult winter ahead of us," he said.

 

"But with the deals we made in Dubai and the interest in our products that we saw here, spring may not be that far away."

 

Ethiopian Airlines placed an order for 12 Airbus A350-900s worth $2.9bn, and the plane maker also sold two A380 super-jumbos.

 

Boeing announced deals for 11 737-800 jetliners to Algeria's government-run Air Algerie and Tassili Airlines.

 

Organisers said this year's show had a total of $13bn in orders so far, less than a 10th of the $155bn of deals inked with all manufacturers at the 2007 show.

Edited November 19, 2009 by wacmedia

[Samsonite 181]

Airbus parent EADS falls to loss, cites 'concern' over A380

 

Tuesday November 17, 2009.

 

Airbus parent EADS suffered an €87 million ($130.2 million) third-quarter loss, reversed from a €679 million profit in the year-ago period, as unfavorable foreign exchange rates and slight decline in revenue dragged the aerospace giant back into the red following seven consecutive profitable quarters.

 

The nine-month profit of €291 million, down 73% from the €1.08 billion earned in the first nine months of 2008, reflected the "challenging commercial market situation," CEO Louis Gallois said. "Protecting our cash and managing the order book and deliveries, these business priorities served us well this year."

 

He admitted, however, that the "A380 program is still a matter of concern. Industrial and financial reviews are underway." EADS said that progress is "slower than expected" and that "continuing production instability and customer requests for delivery postponements" have forced the company to "review" the production plan. It acknowledged that "a couple" of A380 deliveries scheduled for year end "will likely shift" to early 2010 (ATWOnline, Nov. 13).

 

EADS' third-quarter revenue fell 2% to €9.53 billion and operating income slipped 77% to €201 million from €860 million last year. The Airbus segment reported a 3% year-over-year decline in revenue to €6.24 billion and a 99% plunge in EBIT to €4 million. It said 2008 third-quarter EBIT was "supported by a €965 million effect resulting from the revaluation of loss-making contract provisions at the closing spot rate." It continued, "Compared to last year, higher volumes and Power8 savings were more than offset by hedge rate degradation, price deterioration on aircraft delivered and cost increases."

 

Airbus booked 59 firm orders during the quarter, with the nine-month net reaching 123 aircraft (compared to 737 last year). It has received 26 cancellations this year. As of Sept. 30, its order book was worth €332 billion, down 7.2% year-over-year, including a €14 billion decline owing to a weakening US dollar. EADS said the order book still "provides a solid platform for continued deliveries in the future."

 

Airbus's nine-month EBIT of €523 million represented a 64% drop from the €1.46 billion recorded last year. Revenue slid 2% to €20.19 billion.

 

The group said it is "cautiously envisaging an improvement of the economic and market conditions in the next months" but that "deterioration of hedge rates and uncertainties surrounding the A380" will pose challenges.

by Brian Straus"

Edited November 19, 2009 by Samsonite

[joekicker 53]

It acknowledged that "a couple" of A380 deliveries scheduled for year end "will likely shift" to early 2010[/b] (ATWOnline, Nov. 13).

 

Sure.

 

But this thread is all about comparisons. You probably just forgot to mention when the 787 deliveries scheduled for the end of 2009 will be made??

 

.

[Samsonite 181]

..But this thread is all about comparisons. You probably just forgot to mention when the 787 deliveries scheduled for the end of 2009 will be made??

I knew taking you off of ignore would be a mistake as I see you've still got your head up your ass, as usual.

It has been two years, last month, since the first flying citroen, the a380, was delivered, almost two years late.

To make a valid comparison we will have to wait until it has been two years since the first delivery of the 787.

[joekicker 53]

To make a valid comparison we will have to wait until it has been two years since the first delivery of the 787.

 

heh. Good one. Sort of like, "I'll bet you the world won't end in 2012" - tough to lose that bet.

 

You can't answer, or you won't try? It has nothing to do with the first delivery at all. Boeing has/had contracts stipulating delivery in the fourth quarter of 2009. When do you think or know these deliveries will be made?

 

So far as your deking and feinting, according to SeattlePI.com, Boeing's all new 787 Dreamliner, which is already two years late.... So there's your two years right there.

 

Me, I'm starting to think the correct answer is "never". I know big companies can be absolutely relentless but this whole project is doing much damage and no good that we can see right now, surely?

 

.

Edited November 19, 2009 by joekicker

[eltib 54]

heh. Good one. Sort of like, "I'll bet you the world won't end in 2012" - tough to lose that bet.

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but I bet the first 787 deliveries won't occur until 2012.

[eltib 54]

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner is expected to make its first flight in August of 2007 with delivery starting in 2008.

 

This for the Airbus fanboys:

 

 

Heh 2 years 4+ months late on first flight. Go read the whole article BigD posted at the beginning of this topic.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

To make a valid comparison we will have to wait until it has been two years since the first delivery of the 787.

 

Surely not ..........

 

 

“There comes a point where, if you can’t build it and deliver it, then [even though] the technical capability may be brilliant, it is just no good to anyone.”