Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[eltib 54]

Discounts off of list price.

 

Once again, you don't make any sense.

[BigDUSA 71]

Once again, you don't make any sense.

 

I take it you've never bought a new car? I've never paid list price for any new car, I've purchased. Same goes for airlines when they buy. Didn't you learn anything when you worked at Boeing?

Edited March 11, 2010 by BigDUSA

[jacko 8,814]

Discounts off of list price.

China Eastern Airlines bought 16 at about 162 Million$ each so you might have a point. But still more expensive than the Boeing 767 list price.

[BigDUSA 71]

China Eastern Airlines bought 16 at about 162 Million$ each so you might have a point. But still more expensive than the Boeing 767 list price.

 

As long as the EU gives Airbus money. The cost of production and list prices are damn near meaningless. If they don't offer discounts on the plane they can offer it on parts and maintenance.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

As long as the EU gives Airbus money. The cost of production and list prices are damn near meaningless. If they don't offer discounts on the plane they can offer it on parts and maintenance.

 

I didn't hear you complaining about getting a discount on your subsidised Vibe.

[TheFiend 1,181]

I didn't hear you complaining about getting a discount on your subsidised Vibe.

 

Or complaining about getting a tax-free subsidy to his income from his government...

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

French show unhappiness with US decision to effectively bar Airbus from a contract they had already won .

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbys...er-dispute.html

 

France vows retaliation against US in air tanker dispute

 

France has vowed to retaliate against the United States for allegedly shutting Europe's aviation giant EADS out of a $50bn (£33.4bn) defence contract, warning of potential damage to the Atlantic alliance.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Published: 7:33PM GMT 10 Mar 2010

 

 

"This is a serious affair," said France's Europe minister Pierre Lellouche. "I can assure you that there will be consequences."

 

"You cannot expect Europeans to contribute to global defence if you deny their industries the right to work on both sides of the Atlantic," he said, adding that French president Nicolas Sarkozy would take action "at the appropriate time".

 

The escalating spat comes after EADS withdrew this week from a joint bid with Northrop Grumman to supply the Pentagon with A330 air refuelling tankers, alleging that the procurement terms had been rigged to favour Boeing.

 

EADS had already won the contract before, offering a larger and more efficient aircraft than Boeing's 767, which is based on technology dating back to the early 1980s. The original deal was struck down after an appeal by Boeing.

 

Defence disputes fall outside the ambit of the World Trade Organization so Paris is looking at other ways to strike back. "It is obvious that if we roll over and do nothing after a fait accompli by the Pentagon, it is the end of Europe's credibility," said Mr Lellouche.

 

Rainer Brüderle, Germany's economy minister, has also expressed outrage, alleging that the tender "had clearly been designed to favour Boeing under political pressure."

 

Joachim Pfeiffer, Bundestag spokesman for the Christian Democrats, said the Pentagon's conduct was "scandalous", a sentiment echoed by a string of politicians on Wednesday.

 

The dispute casts a cloud over EADS ambitions to become a major player in the US and may have larger strategic implications, causing Europe to reshape its defence doctrines. Mr Sarkozy has been a staunch ally of the US, bringing France back into Nato and holding firm in Afghanistan, but concerns are mounting that the mercurial French leader may revert to Paris's prickly traditions.

 

Germany's Bernhard Stiedl, a member of the EADS board, said Europe needs to rethink its whole approach to defence in light of the affair. There is a risk that the spat could sap goodwill towards a NATO alliance already struggling to reinvent itself after the Cold War.

 

EADS had agreed to assemble the A330 tanker in Alabama, and half the jobs would have been in the US, but that was not enough to overcome deeper – if unstated – concerns about the role of rival powers in US defence procurement. EADS is perceived in Washington as a tool of French foreign policy, despite efforts by current chief Louis Gallois to tone down its Gallic image.

Edited March 11, 2010 by wacmedia

[Samsonite 181]

....French show unhappiness with US decision to effectively bar Airbus from a contract they had already won ...

IIRC, the primary reason the G.A.O. overturned the award of the contract to airbust was the Defense Dept. had changed the specs midstream to favor airbust.

[eltib 54]

IMHO,

 

Boeing really can't cry foul now on subsidies, since they won the tanker contract by default.

[TheFiend 1,181]

IIRC, the primary reason the G.A.O. overturned the award of the contract to airbust was the Defense Dept. had changed the specs midstream to favor airbust.

 

And suprise!, suprise! - the specs have now been changed to favor Boeing.

[Samsonite 181]

And suprise!, suprise! - the specs have now been changed to favor Boeing.

Not so. The first time around the Air Force/Defense Dept. issued the specs and Boeing offered a plane that strictly met those specs. Midstream the Defense Dept. changed the specs to favor Airbust.

Again, the specs have been issued and Boeing is, again, offering the best proudct that meets the guidelines as outlined by the Defense Dept. If airbust has chosen not to offer an aircraft that meets those specs, perhaps they don't have one, or, two, as suggested by another poster, they are so deep in the red due to the a380 and 400 projects they can't afford to bid for the tanker program. Probably the later.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Samsonite

[CheshireTom 1,377]

If airbust chosen not to offer an aircraft that meets those specs, perhaps they don't have one, or, two, as suggested by another poster, they are so deep in the red due to the a380 and 400 projects they can't afford to bid for the tanker program. Probably the later.

 

Hardly. The aircraft is flying operationally. Unlike Boeing's offering.

[Samsonite 181]

Hardly. The aircraft is flying operationally. Unlike Boeing's offering.

And which aircraft might that be? The a400M? Probably the biggest joke in military aircraft in two or three generations or the a380 that has trouble leaving the gate? If there are any a330 tankers flying, how many and with what countries' military?

Edited March 13, 2010 by Samsonite

[Samsonite 181]

Admin. Please deleted. Duplicate post.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Samsonite

[eltib 54]

Scally you should really get a decent internet connection so you don't double post.

[js007 795]

I never really look at this tread.

 

I take it that, after 63 pages, it's about more than airplanes being behind schedule?

[joekicker 53]

France vows retaliation against US in air tanker dispute

 

Heh. France threatens (somebody). That really sets the whole world quaking in fear.

 

That's as fear-inspiring as the IMF chief claiming that the whole world economy will collapse unless there is coordinated action. The French? What are they doing to do, refuse to export any more Camembert cheese? Declare a Year of Impoliteness in Paris?

 

.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

I never really look at this tread.

 

I take it that, after 63 pages, it's about more than airplanes being behind schedule?

 

Nah, we're just keeping it going until Boeing manages to deliver its first 787. Or BigD relocates to Pattaya - whichever comes first.

[Samsonite 181]

"Friday March 12, 2010

 

Emirates President Tim Clark told ATWOnline yesterday in Berlin that the airline's A380s have been a success with passengers and on the balance sheet but that "there are still problems with the reliability of the aircraft. And when we fix snags, we find new ones. I am trying to be kind to Airbus, but they have to solve the problems." The operational reliability of EK's seven in-service A380s is 90%-95%, which he said is not good enough, although he added that the manufacturer "gives us good support."....."

 

http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?i...e=3%2F12%2F2010

[eltib 54]

Nah, we're just keeping it going until Boeing manages to deliver its first 787. Or BigD relocates to Pattaya - whichever comes first.

 

I wonder if Boeing is going to announce another delay on the first delivery? Forget about BigD. The devaluation of the dollar and the rise of baht, has caused him to reduce travel to 2 times this year.

[eltib 54]

Didn't you learn anything when you worked at Boeing?

 

More-so than you. Unfortunately when I bought my Dodge Dakota quad cab in 1999, I didn't get a discount, because it was a first year vehicle.

[wacmedia 277]

Nah, we're just keeping it going until Boeing manages to deliver its first 787. Or BigD relocates to Pattaya - whichever comes first.

 

 

Hi,

 

Jeez, its going to be going for a few more years at least.

[Samsonite 181]

"And on the seventh day

Posted by Michael Mecham at 3/14/2010 11:01 PM CDT

 

Boeing’s fourth 787 test aircraft, ZA003, the one that tests cabin systems, and the last one with Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines, entered the flight regime on Sunday with a 3 hr. and 6 min. flight.

 

Captains Ray Craig and Mike Bryan were at the controls.

The aircraft completed gauntlet testing last week and joins a fleet that has accumulated 100 flights and 300 hours of flight test.

 

ZA003 will spend the least time in the air of the six flight test airplanes, but from a passenger’s and crew’s point of view it’s ranking is pretty high. It is dedicated to passenger interior features – LED lighting, electrochromatic window shades (no more pull down shades) and seat-track connections for inflight entertainment systems -- and crew support systems, meaning their rest areas.

 

It also will include interior noise performance, flight-deck operations, avionics checks, electromagnetic effects, high-intensity radio frequency response and extended operations(ETOPS).

 

As usual, the flight commenced from Payne Field at the 787 factory in Everett and landed at Boeing Field in Seattle, home to Boeing flight test operations.

 

Boeing juggled its entry listing, pushing the fourth airplane built – ZA004 – ahead of ZA003. The final two test airplanes will be powered by General Electric GEnx-1B engines."

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/comme...mentId=blogDest

[BigDUSA 71]

GENEVA (AFP) – A forthcoming WTO ruling on a US complaint against European Union subsidies to Airbus is likely to have a broader impact on aerospace markets, a lawyer acting for Airbus' US rival Boeing predicted Wednesday.

 

A World Trade Organization panel is expected to deliver its full decision on the six year-old case on multi-billion dollar subsidies to the two sides in the coming weeks, in one of the biggest trade disputes the organisation has dealt with.

 

"This marks a significant step in the US challenge," Bob Novick, outside legal counsel for the US aerospace giant, told journalists.

 

"A final panel decision will establish clear guidelines for European governments and other countries about what type of financing is or isn't appropriate when building airplanes," he added in a phone briefing organised by the US company.

 

"The efforts to enter the space by others and how they enter that space with or without government support are of significance. This will be a document that will be looked at by other governments."

 

Some analysts believe a clear-cut judgment was unlikely given the complexity of the case.

 

Novick predicted that both Washington and Brussels could lodge appeals even if the WTO panel broadly finds that some European subsidies to Boeing's arch rival Airbus were illegal under world trade rules.

 

"Based on past experience one would expect a final appeal-adopted decision sometime in the late fall," he claimed.

 

The Geneva-based WTO confirmed last September that it had issued a confidential interim ruling on the dispute to the United States and the 27-nation EU, but few details have filtered out.

 

The US filed the WTO complaint in October 2004.

 

It said an accord that allowed Brussels to provide up to a third of development costs of new airliners was no longer valid since Airbus was now a major industry player and not the fledgling firm when the deal was struck.

 

Boeing said recently that it expected a ruling this month while the WTO has indicated that it should complete its work on the US complaint by April.

 

The EU has also filed a complaint against the United States on multi-billion dollar state aid to Boeing. A first interim ruling in that case is due to be delivered in June, according to the WTO.

 

 

.

[sinbinjack 251]

If these companies spent less time in courts worrying about who pays for what ,they could use all their energies making better and cheaper Airplanes.