Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[MrMango 665]

No, they didn't.

One of us is crazy. Are you telling me that Airbust did not have a a bunch of airframes under construction when the delays hit?

 

I remember reading how that they would have to extensively rework he wiring harness of these before they could fly them.

 

I'll put up a few bob on who's right.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

One of us is crazy. Are you telling me that Airbust did not have a a bunch of airframes under construction when the delays hit?

 

No, I'm telling you that Airbus didn't have scores built, which is what you wrote.

 

I'll put up a few bob on who's right.

 

How much? A score?

[MrMango 665]

No, I'm telling you that Airbus didn't have scores built, which is what you wrote.

 

 

 

How much? A score?

Come on Tommy, stop being picky. We ALL know that both Airbust and Boeing started their production line before the first flight. As I remember,t he number of birds partially completed was about the same when both of them ran into trouble.

 

There is no issue here - Why try to pick a fight?

[Samsonite 181]

Yes, "old news" but it is noticeable how the 3 Stooges only post the "good" news and keep quiet about the problems the testing program uncovers...

 

According to the 3 Stooges testing is going great, but the reality is the testing have uncovered major flaws with Boeings design. The wing attachments and the rear stabiliser section are critical areas of the ariframe, and both areas have had to be redesigned.

Don't recall seeing you, pommie or wacky announcing problems with an airbust airplane, paper or otherwise.

Seems the a350, which hasn't even really started production has already eaten into their "time reserve" so you can expect it to be late.

The side body modification for the 787 was serious, but it was caught early and taken care of, which, again, is the purpose of the testing program. The spacer problem in the rear section of the aircraft is not that serious. It was not a problem that could have been predicted on a computer and was only discovered after the aircraft was cycled (landing and take offs) enough times for it to become apparent. While they will fix the problem in all the aircraft that will be delivered to customers, it is considered minor enough that the first 3 test aircraft will not receive the modification.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Samsonite

[BigDUSA 71]

Yes, "old news" but it is noticeable how the 3 Stooges only post the "good" news and keep quiet about the problems the testing program uncovers...

 

According to the 3 Stooges testing is going great, but the reality is the testing have uncovered major flaws with Boeings design. The wing attachments and the rear stabiliser section are critical areas of the ariframe, and both areas have had to be redesigned.

 

Another guy who starts in with personal attacks when he's losing.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Yes, "old news" but it is noticeable how the 3 Stooges only post the "good" news and keep quiet about the problems the testing program uncovers...

 

According to the 3 Stooges testing is going great, but the reality is the testing have uncovered major flaws with Boeings design. The wing attachments and the rear stabiliser section are critical areas of the ariframe, and both areas have had to be redesigned.

 

Another guy who starts in with personal attacks when he's losing.

 

Where's the personal attack in my post? The 3 Stooges is just a reference to yourself, MrMango and Scally.

 

If I had called you a that would have been a personal attack!

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

When these threads started it was about the A380 and 787. Now that the A380 is in commercial operation some posters are trying to talk about the A350 which is not really in this timeframe at all.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Some people have money and sense.

 

Lottery winners to start spending £12million win - with Peugeot 207

 

She can now easily afford a Ferrari, Porsche or Aston Martin but there's only one model in her sights - a Peugeot 207 costing just under £11,000.

The EuroMillions jackpot win means a future life of luxury for Sharon, 44, and her family. And it's all thanks to her dad John Morris, 64, who paid for a week in a seaside caravan with her husband Nigel, 44, and their children Rhys, four, and one-year-old Lewis.

 

It was while they were on holiday in Minehead, Somerset, that she bought her winning lucky dip ticket at a newsagent's.

 

And yesterday she said: "The win is all thanks to dad's generosity.

 

"We had to cut the trip short to see him in hospital as he wasn't well. But he's recovering and we were thrilled to tell him of his amazing gift. We'll make sure we return the favour."

[bigdelta 46]

EVERETT, Wash., June 17 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The Boeing (NYSE:BA - News) 787 Dreamliner flight test fleet passed 1,000 hours of testing yesterday. The program estimates that it is about 40 percent through the test conditions required to certify the first version of the all-new jetliner.

 

"More work remains but we are seeing excellent progress in flight test," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program for Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "Even more important than the hours we've logged are the test conditions we have completed. The team is being very efficient in getting the data we need."

 

"It's also important to note that we are making solid progress on the ground testing required on the flight test fleet as well," Fancher said.

 

Follow the progress of 787 flight test at http://787flighttest.com.

[Samsonite 181]

When these threads started it was about the A380 and 787. Now that the A380 is in commercial operation some posters are trying to talk about the A350 which is not really in this timeframe at all.

You might want to read post #1789, shown below, where pommie brought up the a350.

 

I have no doubt that will be the case with the A350 as well.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Samsonite

[Samsonite 181]

Some people have money and sense. Lottery winners to start spending £12million win - with Peugeot 207

[BigusDicus 9,835]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...click=pm_latest

 

 

Airbus and Dreamliner Battle for Air Space

 

The talk of the commercial aviation world has been dominated for years by the sales conflict between Boeing's 787 Dreamliner and Airbus's A380. Now both planes are finally airborne—the A380 flying for airlines, the 787 in test flights. Here's how the airplanes match up in the global marketplace.

 

 

 

Hot Ticket for the World's Biggest Passenger Jet

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...2939329664.html

 

Before they ever leave New York's Kennedy Airport for Paris, tourists pose to take pictures in front of it, as though it were the Eiffel Tower or the Statue of Liberty. But this is not a monument, just a monumental airplane.

 

Though it has been a slow-seller with airlines, the $300 million Airbus A380 has been a hit with travelers. Jason Digby and his wife Susanne came to New York a day early from Mississippi just to connect to the double-deck jet that is the largest passenger airplane in the sky. Even after 32 months, enthusiasts still seek out the airplane with the giant forehead, and airlines say it draws stronger bookings and higher prices than other wide-body jets.

 

Some people just want to say they've flown the behemoth, which can carry more than 500 passengers. "It made the flight seem short. I wish it had been longer," said Mr. Digby after landing in Paris on Air France Flight 7, on his way to a vacation in Crete. He was dazzled by the A380's unique tail-mounted camera, which gives a birds-eye view of the plane and everything in front of it during takeoff, landing and throughout the flight. Fliers are also amazed at what it doesn't have—all the engine noise.

 

"It's quieter than any other plane I've been on," said Benoit Marchal of Paris. He also picked the A380 from among Air France's five daily flights in each direction between New York and Paris just to be on the A380. "I've heard about the A380 for years and I wanted to try it," he said.

 

Part of the novelty is that they are still relatively rare. Indeed, only 30 A380s are in service at five airlines so far, though Airbus has orders for another 234.

 

Still, amenities on the A380 haven't quite lived up to their pre-production hype. The company touted grand visions of luxuries on board, pitching the A380 as a flying hotel or cruise ship, with duty free shops on board, restaurant-style dining areas or even gyms, casinos and beauty parlors. But demand for cheap tickets prompted airlines to be more conventional.

 

So for the most part, they opted for lots and lots of seats, with an occasional stand-up bar for premium passengers. A few exceptions: Singapore Airlines offers first-class suites—private cabins with double beds (the airline has a no-sex policy). Emirates has a shower cabin installed on its A380s for first-class passengers. (You get 25 minutes in the shower cabin with five minutes of water.)

 

Because of the vast differences in service and cabins, fares aboard the same flight can vary as widely as the 262-foot wingspan of the plane. On Singapore Airlines, for example, an Aug. 14-21 round-trip between London and Singapore on A380 flights was priced Wednesday at $14,505 for a suite, or $1,556 for a coach seat. On Australia's Qantas Airways, the span was even greater. A coach seat from Los Angeles to Sydney and back on A380 flights for the same dates could be had for as little as $818; first-class seats on the same flights cost $24,538 round-trip.

 

With the economic downturn, some first-class seats are already losing out on the super-jumbo plane to yet more economy seats.

 

Qantas, which flies A380s from Sydney and Melbourne to Los Angeles, London and Singapore, has four classes of service: first, business, economy and "premium economy," which gives travelers almost as much space as they get in domestic, first-class seats on U.S. airlines. But the airline has decided to ax first class from future A380 deliveries and add more premium economy and coach seating, a reflection of customer reluctance to spend lavishly for first-class.

 

In coach, passengers find the same cramped quarters of most other jets on the super-jumbo. Seating is 10 across on the lower deck; eight abreast on the narrower upper deck. Air France, with 538 total seats, opted for a slightly wider coach seat than other A380 operators, but loses some space in the aisles, which are a skinny 17-inches wide in the lower-deck coach cabin. "Seat pitch"—the amount of space allocated to each row of seats, including leg room—is only 31 to 32 inches in the A380 coach cabins, consistent with some of the tightest coach seating at airlines, and less than you get on Southwest Airlines.

 

One unique A380 coach advantage: The side walls of the lower deck bow out, instead of in, so shoulder room for people in window seats is spacious.

 

The tight quarters haven't deterred customers, who find the quiet cabin, staircases between the decks, camera views of the airplane, seat-back entertainment systems with big screens and more options, and the buzz of the unique airplane to all be reasons to prefer A380 tickets over other planes.

 

Dominique Patry, vice president of international affairs and alliances at Air France, says the percentage of seats sold on the A380 is five points higher than any other flight on that route.

 

Qantas Chief Executive Alan Joyce said his airline has seen the percentage of its 450 seats filled on an A380 run about two to three percentage points higher than on its Boeing 747 jumbo jets, even though the fares Qantas charges for A380 flights run 2% to 3% higher as well. In surveys, satisfaction scores on the A380 have been higher than Qantas has seen for any airplane in its history.

 

"The aircraft has an attraction," Mr. Joyce said. "People know there are only a few airlines in the world with it."

 

Singapore Airlines' CEO Chew Choon Seng said routes for his A380s—Singapore to Hong Kong, London, Melbourne, Paris, Sydney, Tokyo and Zurich—all have enough traffic to fill the 471-seat plane. "All of them are doing well," he said.

 

To many airlines, though, the A380 is too big and too expensive. Cathay Pacific, a Hong Kong-based premium airline, prefers smaller Boeing 777-300ERs with longer range.

 

"Whenever we studied it, and we studied it quite closely, we always found a more effective solution," said Cathay CEO Tony Tyler.

 

Another factor: Because so much cargo space is taken up on the A380 by passenger baggage—there are two decks worth of passengers, but only one deck for cargo—the A380's cargo capacity isn't as large as the 777-300ER, Mr. Tyler notes.

 

Given the high price tag on the plane and the preference among many U.S. travelers for the convenience of frequent flights, airline executives say it's unlikely any U.S. carrier will fly the A380 anytime soon.

 

"My perspective is that airplane is a great airplane for certain markets where you can assemble a lot of traffic," said Gerard Arpey, chief executive of AMR Corp.'s American Airlines. But even in his airline's biggest international market—New York to London—leisure and corporate customers want frequency, Mr. Arpey said, and the A380 is too big for American.

[spacebass 0]

Ok so the 787 flies, but how much does it weigh?

[Samsonite 181]

Ok so the 787 flies, but how much does it weigh?

The first 787 weighed more than projected, but after flight testing started Boeing stated it still meets performance specs. They have taken what they have learned and are making changes to lower the weight and, therefore, improve performance beyond what was originally expected. The first changes have already been incorporated in the current planes being built and there is another weight saving change to be made, but I'll forgotten at what point it will start.

They have learned enough from the 787-8 flight testing that the second generation 787, the 787-9, which will be longer, weigh more, of course, and carry more passengers, will be able to fly farther on less fuel than the first generation 787-8. The marvels of engineering.

 

"The 787-8 Fact Sheet

 

Brief Description:

The Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner is a superefficient airplane with new passenger-pleasing features. It will bring the economics of large jet transports to the middle of the market, using 20 percent less fuel than any other airplane of its size.

 

Seating:

210 to 250 passengers

 

Range:

7,650 to 8,200 nautical miles (14,200 to 15,200 kilometers)

 

Configuration:

Twin aisle

 

Cross Section:

226 inches (574 centimeters)

 

Wing Span:

197 feet (60 meters)

 

Length:

186 feet (57 meters)

 

Height:

56 feet (17 meters)

 

Cruise Speed:

Mach 0.85

 

Total Cargo Volume:

4,400 cubic feet

 

Maximum Takeoff Weight:

502,500 pounds (227,930 kilograms)

 

Program milestones:

Authority to offer late 2003

Program launch April 2004

Assembly start 2006."

 

 

The 787-9 Fact Sheet:

 

Brief Description:The Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner is a slightly bigger version of the 787-8. Both are super-efficient airplanes with new passenger-pleasing features. They will bring the economics of large jet transports to the middle of the market, using 20 percent less fuel than any other airplanes of their size.

 

Seating:

250 to 290 passengers

 

Range:

8,000 to 8,500 nautical miles (14,800 to 15,750 kilometers)

 

Configuration:

Twin aisle

 

Cross Section:

226 inches (574 centimeters)

 

Wing Span:

197 feet (60 meters)

 

Length:

206 feet (63 meters)

 

Height:

56 feet (17 meters)

 

Cruise Speed:

Mach 0.85

 

Maximum Takeoff Weight:

545,000 lbs (247,208 kg)

 

Total Cargo Volume:

5,400 cubic feet."

Edited June 19, 2010 by Samsonite

[BigDUSA 71]

One of us is crazy. Are you telling me that Airbust did not have a a bunch of airframes under construction when the delays hit?

 

I remember reading how that they would have to extensively rework he wiring harness of these before they could fly them.

 

I'll put up a few bob on who's right.

 

If I remember correctly it was between 6 to 10 aircraft that were affected by the wiring harness fuck up.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

If I remember correctly it was between 6 to 10 aircraft that were affected by the wiring harness fuck up.

 

Even although it's wrong, it's not what's being discussed. It's the number of frames assembled prior to full certification being achieved.

 

The A380 gained certification in Dec 2006 - how many frames were complete at that point?

Edited June 19, 2010 by CheshireTom

[MrMango 665]

Even although it's wrong, it's not what's being discussed. It's the number of frames assembled prior to full certification being achieved.

 

The A380 gained certification in Dec 2006 - how many frames were complete at that point?

I don't have a clue - Pray tell us uninformed souls.....

[CheshireTom 1,377]

I don't have a clue .....

 

You should use that for your signature.

[MrMango 665]

You should use that for your signature.

How come you wacko leftists have to take cheap shots - Are your arguments so week that they cannot stand on their own?

 

Pretty sad if you are that shallow of a thinker.

[TheFiend 1,181]

How come you wacko leftists have to take cheap shots - Are your arguments so week that they cannot stand on their own?

 

Pretty sad if you are that shallow of a thinker.

 

Calling your antagonists "wacko lefties" is a bit of a cheap shot.

[BigDUSA 71]

Even although it's wrong, it's not what's being discussed. It's the number of frames assembled prior to full certification being achieved.

 

The A380 gained certification in Dec 2006 - how many frames were complete at that point?

 

Since you say, I'm wrong. How many planes did they need to rewire because they fucked up the wiring harness?

[BigDUSA 71]

EVERETT, Wash., June 17 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The Boeing (NYSE: BA) 787 Dreamliner flight test fleet passed 1,000 hours of testing yesterday. The program estimates that it is about 40 percent through the test conditions required to certify the first version of the all-new jetliner.

 

"More work remains but we are seeing excellent progress in flight test," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program for Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "Even more important than the hours we've logged are the test conditions we have completed. The team is being very efficient in getting the data we need."

 

"It's also important to note that we are making solid progress on the ground testing required on the flight test fleet as well," Fancher said.

 

Follow the progress of 787 flight test at http://787flighttest.com.

QUOTE

[CheshireTom 1,377]

EVERETT, Wash., June 17 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The Boeing (NYSE: BA) 787 Dreamliner flight test fleet passed 1,000 hours of testing yesterday. The program estimates that it is about 40 percent through the test conditions required to certify the first version of the all-new jetliner.

 

"More work remains but we are seeing excellent progress in flight test," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program for Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "Even more important than the hours we've logged are the test conditions we have completed. The team is being very efficient in getting the data we need."

 

"It's also important to note that we are making solid progress on the ground testing required on the flight test fleet as well," Fancher said.

 

Follow the progress of 787 flight test at http://787flighttest.com.

QUOTE

 

FFS, do try and keep up. See post 1809.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Since you say, I'm wrong. How many planes did they need to rewire because they fucked up the wiring harness?

 

That's not what you wrote. At least try and maintain some element of consistency.

 

If I remember correctly it was between 6 to 10 aircraft that were affected by the wiring harness fuck up.

Edited June 22, 2010 by CheshireTom

[joekicker 53]

Airbus is really on the wrong track here. There is nothing foolproof. There is an infinite supply of fools.

 

Pilots Were Disoriented; Jet Appeared to Be Working Properly, Officials Say

(Wall Street Journal, June 15)

Disoriented pilots who failed to follow basic safety procedures are believed to have caused last month's crash of a Libyan airliner that killed 103 people, according to people familiar with the investigation.

Preliminary data gathered by an international team of investigators, these people said, indicate the pilots lost control of the Afriqiyah Airways Airbus A330 after breaking off their landing approach to Tripoli and starting to climb away from the airport.

The accident, at the end of a flight from Johannesburg, is prompting Airbus to step up efforts to devise foolproof automated ground-collision avoidance systems, these people said. The enhanced safeguards are specifically intended to prevent the kinds of mistakes that apparently occurred in Tripoli, in which confused pilots got out of sync with the plane's computerized controls and ended up flying an apparently functioning commercial jet into the ground.

...