Do you give money to beggars?

[benny27 3]

Look, I hate using the word 'beggars' because that makes them sound somehow inferior, but just can't think of a better description. Anyway, does anyone give money to these poor souls, often to be seen by ATMs and banks, usually with a disability or baby? I do give, but wonder is that the right thing - should I give it to some official organisation such as Round Table instead? There but for the grace of god go you and I.

[bibzo 7]

yes

[MrMango 672]

I used to, but no more. I lived for a while in Mexico City, and the beggars usually were women with small babies. The problem was that they were unionized, and they had assigned street-corners and babies. They were then driven in a van to their posts for work their shifts and when over they turned over most of the money and babies to the bosses for the next shift.

 

Pretty sad.

[starry 0]

Seems Mexico City and Pattaya are the same ,even the babies are rented out it seems ,on the long trek among the beer bars ,mostly Cambodians if you believe the police ,no Thai would do such a thing

[henryski 6]

its a shame there s a lot of poverty in thailand and i for 1 do give 20 bahts out from time to time ,,, but i wont say any more than this as i got a month ban last time for airing my views about how the countrys run and the rich monarchy,,,,

[joekicker 53]

Tough call.

 

Almost all beggars, and pretty well all beggars with babies are themselves victiims of beggar-gangs, organised and enforced by little mafiosa. The beggars get none of the money you give. But they DO get paid, although obviously not quite minimum wage, heh.

 

So. If you don't give to them, then they won't even have that horrible, demeaning job. But if you don't give to them, maybe they'll get off their bums and gang up on the beggar-gang organiser and kill the prick and move on to something more lucrative.

[Sybarite 1]

...the beggars usually were women with small babies..

That must describe at least half of the bar girls in Pattaya..

[CheshireTom 1,377]

I don't give to the rent-a-kid brigade but do drop 10 or 20 baht to the limbless characters you sometimes, quite literally, stumble over. As an earlier poster said .... "There but for the grace of God etc etc ".

[FatherMojo 2]

I usually buy gum from the guy sitting between Pattayaland and McD's going towards Walking Street. His English is actually pretty good and the gum is 10 baht a pack. 10 baht seems like a fair price. The little kids hawking the same gum for 20 baht on Soi 8 get zero from me.

 

 

Have any of you seen the ladyboy with a baby looking for money? I saw her/him on the news and then when I got in country, I saw her in the flesh and back to her old tricks. I guess she made bail.

 

 

FatherMojo

[MrMango 672]

That must describe at least half of the bar girls in Pattaya..

Not exactly - In mexico City the babies do not belong to the women beggers.

[Mescalito 19]

I usually do. I'll drop whatever coins I have in my pocket at the time in their bowl or cup. Unlike in the US, where opportunities to get ahead are more readily available and the "beggars" are often either scam artists or druggies saving for their next hit, those I see in LOS are usually the real deal.

 

I am constantly reminded of one guy I saw every time I was in Bangkok. Age was hard to gauge but I'm guessing 40-ish to maybe early 50's. He was paralyzed from the waist down, missing both legs at or below the knee, as well as all of one hand and several fingers on the other. I would see him every day, dragging himself down Sukhumvit, pushing a begging bowl ahead of him. I always gave him something, and every time I feel stressed, frustrated or depressed about events in my life I think about him and realize that by comparison I have nothing to complain about whatsoever. I haven't seen him the last couple of times I've been in Bangkok this past year, so I suspect he's no longer among us.

 

I always put whatever change I had in his bowl. Who knows? Maybe next time around he'll be putting coins in mine.

[scotchbroth100 0]

no

[PattayaPete 530]

This subject comes up periodically and I always give the same answer. Sadly the message never seems to get through.

 

As alluded to above all beggars you see in the streets of Thailand are run by the beggar Mafia. If an independent tries to set up shop they will be closed down by the police.

 

The beggar Mafia are not nice people. They abuse their "employees", indulge in human trafficking and sometimes mutilate their employees to gain more sympathy for them.

 

Any contribution you make encourages this inhuman trade. If everybody stopped giving tomorrow many people would get their lives back and more importantly many future victims would be saved. You might be easing your conscience by dropping a few coins in a bucket but you are causing real harm to real people by doing so.

 

Don't give money to these people.

 

If you want to help the less fortunate give your money to recognised charities, or if you want to personalise it, visit one of the orphanages, the street kid centre or the Camillian centre for aids victims and give the money to these truly needy people.

[pattysteve 34]

This subject comes up periodically and I always give the same answer. Sadly the message never seems to get through.

 

As alluded to above all beggars you see in the streets of Thailand are run by the beggar Mafia. If an independent tries to set up shop they will be closed down by the police.

 

The beggar Mafia are not nice people. They abuse their "employees", indulge in human trafficking and sometimes mutilate their employees to gain more sympathy for them.

 

Any contribution you make encourages this inhuman trade. If everybody stopped giving tomorrow many people would get their lives back and more importantly many future victims would be saved. You might be easing your conscience by dropping a few coins in a bucket but you are causing real harm to real people by doing so.

 

Don't give money to these people.

 

If you want to help the less fortunate give your money to recognised charities, or if you want to personalise it, visit one of the orphanages, the street kid centre or the Camillian centre for aids victims and give the money to these truly needy people.

 

I agree entirely,though i sometimes feel guilty about not giving.As said above go around to one the the great charity organizations.My fave is the Fountain of Life.

[joekicker 53]

Oh, right, another thing: Don't feel guilty. Help someone you know you're helping, and ignore the beggars. You can't save the world, don't feel guilty about that.

[bug27 1]

Was out with my TGF awhile back and she told me the beggar (with baby) that we had just past was scolding (pinching) the baby for NOT crying. My TGF had a pained look on her face as she just couldn't believe someone would do that.

[glynbuk 29]

I have said before and i will say it again, i do give to beggars.

 

I am selective in which beggars i give to. i feel that it may

make a difference to some of them and i feel thats worth it.

 

Giving 10 or 20 baht every now and again will not affect what i can afford and

if now and again 10 baht gets into the hands of the mafia, then so be it.

[Sybarite 1]

If you want to help the less fortunate give your money to recognised charities,

 

Does Pattaya have the equivalent of a telephone directory enquires or yellow pages where we can find these 'recognised charities'? I have never seen any of these charity workers walking around trying to help the street beggars.

[soi unwise 6]

Agree 100% glyn.

[Odense 498]

I am convinced Peter is right here and much prefer to drop the change in one of the many boxes from certified charities that is in most of the bars.

Edited January 22, 2008 by Odense

[PattayaPete 530]

I have said before and i will say it again, i do give to beggars.

 

I am selective in which beggars i give to. i feel that it may

make a difference to some of them and i feel thats worth it.

 

Giving 10 or 20 baht every now and again will not affect what i can afford and

if now and again 10 baht gets into the hands of the mafia, then so be it.

 

 

Agree 100% glyn.

 

I have to ask why. Don't you believe me or don't you care.

 

What these mafia people do is FORCE people in their power to do this and then take ALL the money. The beggars get fed if they are lucky and a place to sleep when not working that you would not keep pigs in. They traffic people from Burma and Cambodia specifically to work for them. Sometimes these people are abducted and sometimes coerced and sometimes threatened with violence if they don't do as they are told. As they are in the main illegal immigrants they are told they will be sent to jail and beaten up if they go to the police.

 

Children are also forced to become beggars and street sellers. These kids do not go to school and are not cared for by the mafia. They are used and abused.

 

The reason this continues to happen is that there is good money in it for the Mafia types and tourists refuse to believe that they are doing real harm to the beggars and fuelling this illegal activity by giving money. It makes me so mad!!!

 

Nothing in Thailand is as it seems but if you want to ignore the facts I have given and continue to hurt these people keep on giving them money.

 

The story below is from the Bangkok post a few years ago. Sadly the effort like most Thai crack downs lasted a few months and fizzled out.

 

BANGKOK, May 12 (TNA) - The government today announced the launch of a major crackdown on begging gangs, while urging the public to refrain from giving money to beggars and purchasing goods from child vendors.

 

Twinned with a programme to assist the victims of begging gangs, the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security crackdown will begin on an unspecified date later this month.

 

Today the ministry convened a meeting with agencies, including the Royal Thai Police, the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA), the Interior Ministry and the Labour Ministry, to announce plans for the sweeping move, which will begin in Bangkok before being extended to the rest of the country.

 

Mr. Wanlop Phloytabtim, the ministry's permanent secretary, told delegates that the focus of the crackdown would be on the heads of begging 'mafias' who controlled teams of disabled, elderly or child beggars.

 

The beggars themselves would be offered social accommodation and skills training if they are Thai nationals, but would be repatriated if they are foreign nationals, he said, adding that the government would work with the countries concerned to ensure that the beggars did not return to Thailand.

 

The government hopes that by appealing to the public to refrain from giving money to beggars, or purchasing goods from child vendors, it will be able to successfully slash through begging rings.

 

Noting that the money given to beggars fell into the hands of the gangmasters, rather than the beggars themselves, Mr. Wanlop said: "These people are aware that Thais have a tendency to feel sorry for people; so they get the elderly, disabled and children to beg for them, or sell things. But the money goes into their own pockets".

 

According to recent research by ministry officials, there are 13 major begging areas in Bangkok, home to at least 180 beggars.

 

These include the Victory Monument, the World Trade Center, the Chatuchak Market and other central locations.

 

Although there is no legislation in Thailand which specifically outlaws begging, there are other related laws which can be used to prosecute the gangmasters.

[bangkapiboy 5]

I have to ask why. Don't you believe me or don't you care.

 

What these mafia people do is FORCE people in their power to do this and then take ALL the money. The beggars get fed if they are lucky and a place to sleep when not working that you would not keep pigs in. They traffic people from Burma and Cambodia specifically to work for them. Sometimes these people are abducted and sometimes coerced and sometimes threatened with violence if they don't do as they are told. As they are in the main illegal immigrants they are told they will be sent to jail and beaten up if they go to the police.

 

Children are also forced to become beggars and street sellers. These kids do not go to school and are not cared for by the mafia. They are used and abused.

 

The reason this continues to happen is that there is good money in it for the Mafia types and tourists refuse to believe that they are doing real harm to the beggars and fuelling this illegal activity by giving money. It makes me so mad!!!

 

Nothing in Thailand is as it seems but if you want to ignore the facts I have given and continue to hurt these people keep on giving them money.

 

 

PattayaPete, you are right on the money. As with any country, some beggars do make a lot more money than those who actually work for a living as well. Exposing Thai TV shows have followed some of these beggars with footage showing the beggar at his lavish home after a long day of begging. The same goes in New York, my home, a somewhat family friend dresses up daily like a bum and plays flute at ground zero. He actually owns a big house in Jersey, rents out all the extra bedrooms, a car, a motorcycle, etc. Begging can also be a very lucrative job.

[joekicker 53]

I have never seen any of these charity workers walking around trying to help the street beggars.

 

As said several times above: They are NOT street beggars, they are forced, trafficked employees of mafia gangs. The gangs are violent, both immoral and amoral, and are armed and dangerous.

 

That said: The people you see are victims and there are many people and many charities that work to help them. There are government departments, foundations, NGOs, charities and volunteer agencies. They run orphanges, job-training, rescue homes and shelters, and a lot more. They NEVER have enough of anything, particularly people but including money.

 

Let's try another way: Every 20 baht you give to the local mafia is 20 baht stolen from people who might be able to help these trafficked people.

 

Once you know this is a mafia scam, which you do: If you give to them, you are supporting the worst, most foul, most horrible kind of criminal activity that trafficks women and children like chattels in conditions that make slavery look attractive.

 

Now, each person has to make up his mind, but you should bear all of the above and more in mind as you make your decision and choice.

 

p.s. There *are* actual beggars in Thailand. Often you will seem them in or near the more reputable wats. I defy any tourist-monger to tell the difference, though -- in beggars or in wats, heh.

Edited January 22, 2008 by joekicker

[jackcorbett 2]

This subject comes up periodically and I always give the same answer. Sadly the message never seems to get through.

 

As alluded to above all beggars you see in the streets of Thailand are run by the beggar Mafia. If an independent tries to set up shop they will be closed down by the police.

 

The beggar Mafia are not nice people. They abuse their "employees", indulge in human trafficking and sometimes mutilate their employees to gain more sympathy for them.

 

Any contribution you make encourages this inhuman trade. If everybody stopped giving tomorrow many people would get their lives back and more importantly many future victims would be saved. You might be easing your conscience by dropping a few coins in a bucket but you are causing real harm to real people by doing so.

 

Don't give money to these people.

 

If you want to help the less fortunate give your money to recognised charities, or if you want to personalise it, visit one of the orphanages, the street kid centre or the Camillian centre for aids victims and give the money to these truly needy people.

 

 

I absolutely concur with you, Pete, and Joekicker. In fact, one of my fellow condo co-owner friends and I were just talking about the beggar mafia of Naklua just yesterday. If we give to the beggar we are merely making the mafia stronger and as you suggest here, this Mafia does not count nice people in its membership.

[soi unwise 6]

My Money my choice.Ignorance is not always a burden.