30 year lease

[simon_cook 22]

I have a house here in my wifes name with a 30 year lease.Could someone please clarify what would happen if we were to split.Could she still kick me out and who actually owns the building on the land as it is the land with the lease on it.Would i have the right to destroy it with a bulldozer if push comes to shove.Its all a bit confusing.I have been reading on the net that even with this agreement you still dont have a leg to stand on.Any info would be greatly appreciated

[bigdelta 46]

There may be some opinions offered but a mongers board may not be the best place for that info.

[2 slices short 10]

I have a house here in my wifes name with a 30 year lease.Could someone please clarify what would happen if we were to split.Could she still kick me out and who actually owns the building on the land as it is the land with the lease on it.Would i have the right to destroy it with a bulldozer if push comes to shove.Its all a bit confusing.I have been reading on the net that even with this agreement you still dont have a leg to stand on.Any info would be greatly appreciated

 

Simon, without the details of the lease itself and other importatnt relevant information, any answer you get here will be useless.

 

Many lawyers around Pattaya will offer you an initial free opinion, PM me if you need some recommendations.

 

Cheers : Admiral Ken

Edited May 3, 2011 by Admiral Ken

[joekicker 53]

I have a house here in my wifes name with a 30 year lease.

 

Then you don't have a house here.

 

You can't own something in someone's name, anywhere in the world. Your partial stake, if any, in your wife's house would depend on any other legal papers that might exist about it. What (other) contracts did you sign with her?

 

.

[scorpions 6]

She have a house and you

 

Turn page, learn and move on

[Gary 4,100]

As I understand the 30 year lease, it allows you to have total control for the lease period. The problem is if you lease from your wife. In that case, I doubt that you have a chance to recover anything if the marriage should go pear shaped.

[JohnnyK 28]

I think Gary may be right. It's not an "arm's length" arrangement.

[joekicker 53]

As I understand the 30 year lease, it allows you to have total control for the lease period.

 

Yes. But unless I misread or he misstated the OP, he doesn't have the lease, his wife does. If the lease is in her name, SHE has complete control and he has nothing - or, more literally, he has whatever she grants him.

 

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[js007 795]

For what it's worth, I think it is possible to own the house separate from the land it sits on. Falangs can own houses, just not land.

 

Someone ought to start manufacturing houses on wheels in Thailand.

[joekicker 53]

Someone ought to start manufacturing houses on wheels in Thailand.

 

NO!! Please. Houses on wheels attract hurricanes and tornadoes, you know that!!!

 

.

[jacko 8,762]

Yes. But unless I misread or he misstated the OP, he doesn't have the lease, his wife does. If the lease is in her name, SHE has complete control and he has nothing - or, more literally, he has whatever she grants him.

 

.

Hard to determine from the OP.

I thought he perhaps had the 30 year lease on the land, which is owned by his wife.

 

If the land is actually owned by a third party, and a 30 year lease taken out on it in his wifes name, well that is what you said.

[JohnnyK 28]

For what it's worth, I think it is possible to own the house separate from the land it sits on. Falangs can own houses, just not land.

 

Someone ought to start manufacturing houses on wheels in Thailand.

Correct, house and land can be owned separately. Please, no trailer trash!

[simon_cook 22]

sorry lads i was in a rush last time and i know its not worded very well.My wife owns the land but i have a 30 year lease agreement.My name is on the title deeds.Just wondered what the situation was if we split.I know i have a contract but because im not Thai is that worth the paper its written on if push came to shove?By the way Tony from Magna Carta sorted my lease agreement.

[jacko 8,762]

sorry lads i was in a rush last time and i know its not worded very well.My wife owns the land but i have a 30 year lease agreement.My name is on the title deeds.Just wondered what the situation was if we split.I know i have a contract but because im not Thai is that worth the paper its written on if push came to shove?By the way Tony from Magna Carta sorted my lease agreement.

Well that arrangement has worked for some, ie those who have had a disagreeable split yet retained 'ownership' of their homes.

But I also have heard of nasty things happening like the lady getting some judge to sign something and she arrives with a few friends, trucks and policemen and suddenly the guy is living in a shell.

And if the house was located in her village, on her land, I would certainly be looking over my shoulder.

 

I believe the arrangement is sound, but TIT!

[joekicker 53]

I believe the arrangement is sound, but TIT!

 

Pre Cisely.

 

We assume this is a "good" contract. Therefore, the OP has legal control of the house. But that is a VERY dicey situation to be in if the lovely wife wants to get up to any number of mischiefs. I'd be looking for a *friendly* and agreeable way out of the lease, assuming that this is possible.

 

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[Gary 4,100]

Anything purchased after marriage gives the wife 50 percent. Even if he does own the house in his name, his wife is still entitled to half. These things usually end badly unless he can come to an amicable agreement with her.

 

Guys have spent big baht and taken these situations all the way through the courts. They have won. Unfortunately years later they have still not collected a single baht.

[JohnnyK 28]

The wife is all lovey-dovey when you marry her and buy a house and land for her.

When relationships turn bad its amazing how really nasty the former lover can be. Anywhere, not just LoS.

Edited May 5, 2011 by JohnnyK

[simon_cook 22]

So basically it gives me some leverage.I could say "accept my offer to buy you out or i will stay put until the lease runs out in 25 years"

[malcontented 8]

So basically it gives me some leverage.I could say "accept my offer to buy you out or i will stay put until the lease runs out in 25 years"

Or until someone gets paid as little as 5,000 Baht and its "bang, bang, you're dead!!!!"

Remember....life is cheap out here.

BTW, is your OP a hypothetical question, or is a seperation on the cards?

 

Malc

Edited May 5, 2011 by malcontented

[Bazle 1,448]

sorry lads i was in a rush last time and i know its not worded very well.My wife owns the land but i have a 30 year lease agreement.My name is on the title deeds.Just wondered what the situation was if we split.I know i have a contract but because im not Thai is that worth the paper its written on if push came to shove?By the way Tony from Magna Carta sorted my lease agreement.

Perhaps it would be wise to get back to Tony and ask his advice.

[2 slices short 10]

Perhaps it would be wise to get back to Tony and ask his advice.

 

Whilst I have the greatest respect for Tony these are the times when a second opinion is worthwhile - in case something has been inadvertently overlooked.

See Post #3 this thread.

 

Cheers : Admiral Ken

[jacko 8,762]

So basically it gives me some leverage.I could say "accept my offer to buy you out or i will stay put until the lease runs out in 25 years"

Good luck with that.

By 'buy her out' there is still the issue of who owns the land.

[simon_cook 22]

thank 4 all the replys.Just come in from pussy cat bar soi nern.Sorry if not co herent.I think my wife would accept anything about 1000,000bt.I think thats ok as im listening to the best trance music ever.I am in a good mood for about 5 mins.Koa jai mai?sometimes i hate pattaya but now i love it.Who says you can enjoy Pattaya without alcohol has never been married for 10 years.

Edited May 10, 2011 by simon_cook

[simon_cook 22]

P.S. whoever said my grammar was no good im sorry but i"m pissed most of the time.My apologies.

[nam-thip 1]

Once again we hear a story that gives the more sensible expats every reason to rent a house and not get into some half baked unlawful arrangement where your likely to come out with jack shit.

 

This is maybe the lease deal you should have made.

 

If you have had a usufruct registered you would still be able to live on the land and use it as if it was yours even if the land was sold to another Thai. A usufruct can be registered for life, i.e. as long as you live, or a time not exceeding thirty years.

 

THAI CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL CODE

 

 

TITLE VII - USUFRUCT

 

Section 1417 - An immovable property may be subject to a usufruct by virtue of which the usufructuary is entitled to the possession, use and enjoyment of the property.

 

He has the right of management of the property.

 

The usufruct of a forest, mine or quarry entitles the usufructuary to the exploitation of the forest, mine or quarry.

 

Section 1418 – A usufruct may be created either for a period of time or for life of the usufructuary.

 

If no time has been fixed, it is presumed that the usufruct is for the life of the usufructuary. If it is created for a period of time, the provisions of Section 1403 paragraph 3 *) shall apply mutatis mutandis.

 

In any case the usufruct comes to an end on the death of the usufructuary.

 

*) Section 1403, paragraph 3 wording: "If it is granted for a period of time, the period may not exceed thirty years; if a longer period is stipulated, it shall be reduced to thirty years. The grant may be renewed for a period not exceeding thirty years from the time of renewal."

 

Section 1419 – If property is destroyed without compensation being paid, the owner is not bound to restore it; but if he does so to an extent, the usufruct revives to that extent.

 

If any compensation is paid, the owner of the usufructuary must restore the property so far as it is possible to do so, having regard to the amount of the compensation received, and the usufruct revives to that extent; but, if restoration is impossible, the usufruct comes to an end and the compensation must be divided between the owner and the usufructuary in proportion to the damages suffered by them respectively.

 

The same rules apply mutatis mutandis in case of expropriation as well as in the case partial destruction of the property or of partial impossibility to restore the property.

 

Section 1420 – When usufruct comes to an end, the usufructuary must return the property to the owner.

 

The usufructuary is liable for the destruction of depreciation in value of the property, unless he proves that the damage was not caused by his fault. He must replace anything which he has wrongfully consumed.

 

He is not bound to give compensation for depreciation in value caused by reasonable use.

 

Section 1421 – The usufructuary must, in the exercise of his rights, take as much care of the property as a person of ordinary prudence would take of his own property.

 

Section 1422 – Unless otherwise provided in the act creating a usufruct, the usufructuary may transfer the exercise of his right to a third person. In such case the owner of the property may sue the transferee direct.

 

Section 1423 – The owner may object to any unlawful or unreasonable use of the property.

 

If the owner proves that his rights are in peril, he may demand security from the usufructuary, except in the case of a donor who has reserved to himself the usufruct of the property given.

 

If the usufructuary fails to give security within a reasonable time fixed for the purpose, or if, in the spirit of the objection, he continues to make use of the property unlawfully or unreasonably, the Court may appoint a Receiver to manage the property in his stead. Upon security being given the Court may release the Receiver so appointed.

 

Section 1424 – The usufructuary is bound to keep the substance of the property unaltered, and is responsible for ordinary maintenance and petty repairs.

 

If important repairs of measures are necessary for the preservation of the property, the usufructuary must forthwith inform the owner thereof and permit them to be carried out. In case of default by the owner, the usufructuary may have the work carried out at the owner's expense.

 

Section 1425 – All extraordinary expenses must be borne by the owner, but in order to meet these expenses coming under the foregoing section he may realise part of the property unless the usufructuary is willing to advance the necessary funds without charging interest.

 

Section 1426 – The usufructuary shall, for the duration of the usufruct, bear expenses for the management of the property, pay taxes and duties, and be responsible for interests payable on depts. Charged upon it.

 

Section 1427 – If required by the owner, the usufructuary is bound to insure the property against loss for the benefit of the owner; and if the property is already insured he is bound to renew such insurance when due.

 

He must pay premiums of the insurance for the duration of his usufruct.

 

Section 1428 – No action by the owner against the usufructuary or his transferee in connection with the usufruct or vice versa may be entered later than one year after the usufruct comes to an end. But in an action by the owner who could not have known of the end of the usufruct, the prescription of the year shall run from the time when he knew or ought to have known of it.

 

Definition:

 

1. mutatis mutandis – "Due alteration, or changing whatever is required to be changed. As in, "The changes proposed for the first contract apply mutatis mutandis to all other contracts." Latin for, things being changed that ought to be changed".

 

 

PS: Only short time lease agreements can be found in the Pussycat bar...................

Edited July 8, 2011 by nam-thip