Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[TheFiend 1,181]

Your surprised corporations would spin the ruling to their own advantage?

 

The word confidential is supposed to mean something.....

[BigDUSA 71]

The word confidential is supposed to mean something.....

 

You are naive.

[TheFiend 1,181]

You are naive.

 

Sarcasm is lost on you!!!

[jacko 8,813]

Sarcasm is lost on you!!!

Which would imply, taking the phrase Sadly, sarcasm is wasted on the stupid

literally!

[BigDUSA 71]

Boeing Says Temporary 787 Line In Everett Could Become More Permanent

kirotv.com Webstaff

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Posted: 12:42 pm PST February 3, 2011

 

EVERETT, Washington -- Boeing has hinted that its temporary 787 line in Everett could become more permanent if the company is able to up its production beyond its supply goals, KIRO 7 news partner The Dailiy Herald in Everett reported Thursday.

 

Boeing President Jim Albaugh said the company could increase 787 production to 15 planes monthly with its plants in Everett and South Carolina, but that rate would require some problems to be ironed out in its global supply chain.

 

Boeing has yet to deliver any 787s because of problems in its supply chain, which ship sections of the 787 to Everett for final assembly.

QUOTE

[Fireman Sam 336]

BigDUSA,

 

How many times have you actually flown on an A380, myself, about 10-12 long-haul trips since it came into service, another two booked before the end of February.

 

If there is a finer aircraft in the sky today then I have yet to set foot on it, I have flown on most of the other aircraft in the skies today, maybe apart from a few Russian or Chinese jobs.

 

I have no preference over Boeing or Airbus, just like to be comfortable when flying long-haul and the A380 certainly fits the bill.

 

Maybe you should give it a go before decrying it.

 

 

Regards

Fireman Sam

[TheFiend 1,181]

EVERETT, Washington -- Boeing has hinted that its temporary 787 line in Everett could become more permanent if the company is able to up its production beyond its supply goals, KIRO 7 news partner The Dailiy Herald in Everett reported Thursday.

 

Boeing President Jim Albaugh said the company could increase 787 production to 15 planes monthly with its plants in Everett and South Carolina, but that rate would require some problems to be ironed out in its global supply chain.

 

Boeing has yet to deliver any 787s because of problems in its supply chain, which ship sections of the 787 to Everett for final assembly.

 

So the wrong fasteners, poor design on the wing mountings, electrical fires and on-board rain haven't contributed to the lack of deliveries?

[CheshireTom 1,377]

So the wrong fasteners, poor design on the wing mountings, electrical fires and on-board rain haven't contributed to the lack of deliveries?

 

At least on the A380, the onboard showers are optional.

[BigDUSA 71]

BigDUSA,

 

How many times have you actually flown on an A380, myself, about 10-12 long-haul trips since it came into service, another two booked before the end of February.

 

If there is a finer aircraft in the sky today then I have yet to set foot on it, I have flown on most of the other aircraft in the skies today, maybe apart from a few Russian or Chinese jobs.

 

I have no preference over Boeing or Airbus, just like to be comfortable when flying long-haul and the A380 certainly fits the bill.

 

Maybe you should give it a go before decrying it.

 

 

Regards

Fireman Sam

 

I've never flown on the A380. I have no problems with the A380 other then it's years late, overweight and the Rolls Royce engines have major problems including exploding. Let's not forget all the EU taxpayer subsidies.

[Yzi 72]

I've never flown on the A380. I have no problems with the A380 other then it's years late, overweight and the Rolls Royce engines have major problems including exploding. Let's not forget all the EU taxpayer subsidies.

 

I wonder how awesome you would say it is, if it was made in USA...

[BigDUSA 71]

I wonder how awesome you would say it is, if it was made in USA...

 

I'd say the same thing except for the EU taxpayer subsidy. Then I'd welcome all the assistance the EU taxpayer wants to give.

[Yzi 72]

I'd say the same thing except for the EU taxpayer subsidy. Then I'd welcome all the assistance the EU taxpayer wants to give.

 

Oh really??

[BigDUSA 71]

Oh really??

 

Yes, I'd be more then willing to accept all the EU taxpayer subsidy that the EU is willing to send.

[BigDUSA 71]

Boeing adds 5th 747-8 to test fleet

 

(AP:EVERETT, Wash.) Boeing Co. said on Friday that it has begun flight testing on a fifth 747-8 freighter.

 

The plane began flight testing on Thursday, Boeing said, with a 3 1/2 hour flight beginning and ending at Paine field in Everett. The company said the plane performed well.

 

The 747-8 is a revamped version of Boeing's well-known 747. It is aiming to deliver the cargo version later this year.

 

Shares of Chicago-based Boeing rose 40 cents to close Friday at $71.38.

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press.

QUOTE

[Yzi 72]

Boeing adds 5th 747-8 to test fleet

 

(AP:EVERETT, Wash.) Boeing Co. said on Friday that it has begun flight testing on a fifth 747-8 freighter.

 

The plane began flight testing on Thursday, Boeing said, with a 3 1/2 hour flight beginning and ending at Paine field in Everett. The company said the plane performed well.

 

The 747-8 is a revamped version of Boeing's well-known 747. It is aiming to deliver the cargo version later this year.

 

Shares of Chicago-based Boeing rose 40 cents to close Friday at $71.38.

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press.

QUOTE

 

So for once (finally) Boeings test went well on a new version of old plane and you think it's worth posting? I wonder if/when 787 starts performing flawless, if ever.

[BigDUSA 71]

So for once (finally) Boeings test went well on a new version of old plane and you think it's worth posting? I wonder if/when 787 starts performing flawless, if ever.

 

Of course it's worth posting. Two different lines of aircraft due to start deliveries later this year. If I remember correctly Boeing has 15 or so 787 almost ready to go and they should start producing 15 per month later this year. Yeah it's worth posting.

[jacko 8,813]

Yes, I'd be more then willing to accept all the EU taxpayer subsidy that the EU is willing to send.

We prefer it to be used towards something useful!

[Samsonite 181]

"Originally published February 5, 2011 at 10:00 PM | Page modified February 5, 2011 at 10:01 PM

 

Sunday Buzz

A 'prescient' warning to Boeing on 787 trouble

Boeing commercial airplanes chief Jim Albaugh had some unusually candid comments about the 787's global outsourcing strategy at a recent Seattle University talk.

 

In a late January appearance at Seattle University, Boeing Commercial Airplanes Chief Jim Albaugh talked about the lessons learned from the disastrous three years of delays on the 787 Dreamliner.

 

One bracing lesson that Albaugh was unusually candid about: the 787's global outsourcing strategy — specifically intended to slash Boeing's costs — backfired completely.

 

"We spent a lot more money in trying to recover than we ever would have spent if we'd tried to keep the key technologies closer to home," Albaugh told his large audience of students and faculty.

 

Boeing was forced to compensate, support or buy out the partners it brought in to share the cost of the new jet's development, and now bears the brunt of additional costs due to the delays.

 

Some Wall Street analysts estimate those added costs at between $12 billion and $18 billion, on top of the $5 billion Boeing originally planned to invest.

 

Interviewed after the Seattle U. talk, Albaugh avoided directly criticizing the decisions of his predecessors.

 

The 787 outsourcing strategy was put place in 2003 by then-Boeing Chairman Harry Stonecipher, who was ousted in 2005, and Commercial Airplanes Chief Alan Mulally, now chief executive at Ford.

 

"It's easy to look in the rear-view mirror and see things that could have been done differently," Albaugh said. "I wasn't sitting in the room and I don't know what they were facing."

 

And yet, at least one senior technical engineer within Boeing predicted the outcome of the extensive outsourcing strategy with remarkable foresight a decade ago.

 

Albaugh and other senior leaders within Boeing may be belatedly paying attention to a paper presented at an internal company symposium in 2001 by John Hart-Smith, a world-renowned airplane structures engineer.

 

Hart-Smith, who had worked for Douglas Aircraft and joined Boeing when it merged in 1997 with McDonnell Douglas, was one of the elite engineers designated within the company as Senior Technical Fellows.

 

His paper was a biting critique of excessive outsourcing, a warning to Boeing not to go down the path that had led Douglas Aircraft to virtual obsolescence by the mid-1990s.

 

The paper laid out the extreme risks of outsourcing core technology and predicted it would bring massive additional costs and require Boeing to buy out partners who could not perform.

 

Albaugh said in the interview that he read the paper six or seven years ago, and conceded that it had "a lot of good points" and was "pretty prescient."

 

In his talk at Seattle U., the first specific lesson Albaugh cited as learned from the 787 debacle seemed to echo Hart-Smith's paper.

 

Albaugh said that part of what had led Boeing astray was the chasing of a financial measure called RONA, for Return on Net Assets.

 

This is essentially a ratio of income to assets and one way to make that ratio bigger is to reduce your assets. The drive to reduce RONA thus spurred a push within Boeing to do less work in-house — hence reducing assets in the form of facilities and employees — and have others do the work.

 

Hart-Smith argued that it was wrong to use that financial measure as a gauge of performance and that outsourcing would only slash profits and hollow out the company.

 

Reached by phone in his native Australia, where at 70 he is now retired, Hart-Smith said he'd heard in recent months on the grapevine from former colleagues that senior executives at Boeing Commercial Airplanes have been reading his paper.

 

"I'm glad they got the message," Hart-Smith said. "It took far too long."

 

After he presented his paper at a company symposium in 2001, he received hundreds of supportive e-mails from engineers and lower-level managers, he said.

 

But a senior executive present at the symposium spent a half-hour after his presentation attacking the paper, and afterward Boeing leadership ignored Hart-Smith.

 

He had hoped to join the 787 program but wasn't permitted to do so. He felt sidelined, he said.

 

In Hart-Smith's analysis, the seeds of Boeing's outsourcing ideas grew out of the McDonnell aircraft business, which focused on military-airplane programs. On the military side of the business, the U.S. government was the major, often the only, customer and it funded development costs in full.

 

"The military approach didn't require you to risk your own money," Hart-Smith said. "That was the McDonnell Douglas mentality."

 

He blamed that attitude for the major outsourcing on the MD-95 and proposed MD-12 programs, the failure of which led to the decline of Douglas' commercial-airplane business in California.

 

The same ideas were transferred to Boeing with the McDonnell Douglas merger and led directly to the 787 outsourcing strategy, he said.

 

Taken to its extreme conclusion, Hart-Smith said mockingly, the strategy of maximizing return on net assets could lead Boeing to outsource everything except a little Boeing decal to slap on the nose of the finished airplane.

 

Though most of the profits would be outsourced to suppliers along with all the work, and all the company's expertise would wither away, the return on investment in a 25-cent decal could be 5,000 percent.

 

Has Boeing belatedly seen the light and embraced Hart-Smith's analysis?

 

Clearly the 787 has brought a serious rethink at the top.

 

"We went too much with outsourcing," Albaugh said in the interview. "Now we need to bring it back to a more prudent level."

 

That likely includes building the horizontal tails of the next version of the Dreamliner, the 787-9, in the Seattle area. And for the next all-new airplane that Boeing will build, Albaugh vows that "we can do things differently and better."

 

"Doing the new airplane the way we did this one is not what we want to do."

 

But the rethink may not be as radical as Hart-Smith would like.

 

In his paper he wrote that while some selective outsourcing is necessary, Boeing should keep most of the work it has traditionally done in-house.

 

Albaugh balked at going that far.

 

"I haven't said keep most of the work in-house," Albaugh said. "I still believe we need to make sure we try to access the best technologies and capabilities that are available around the world."

 

And despite what Hart-Smith has heard on the grapevine, no one from Boeing's leadership has actually called him up to talk about his analysis.

 

Hart-Smith retired from Boeing in 2008. He still presents engineering papers at academic conferences around the world.

 

Yet that startlingly prescient 2001 paper focused on business economics. Where did a structures engineer get that kind of expertise?

 

"It's common sense," Hart-Smith said.

 

— Dominic Gates"

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sund...ndaybuzz06.html

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Of course it's worth posting. Two different lines of aircraft due to start deliveries later this year. If I remember correctly Boeing has 15 or so 787 almost ready to go and they should start producing 15 per month later this year. Yeah it's worth posting.

 

You don't remember correctly.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

"Originally published February 5, 2011 at 10:00 PM | Page modified February 5, 2011 at 10:01 PM

 

Sunday Buzz

A 'prescient' warning to Boeing on 787 trouble

 

That wasn't too difficult to predict ...

 

 

 

[TheFiend 1,181]

Of course it's worth posting. Two different lines of aircraft due to start deliveries later this year. If I remember correctly Boeing has 15 or so 787 almost ready to go and they should start producing 15 per month later this year. Yeah it's worth posting.

 

Those "ready to go" planes have ended up costing Boeing due to all the rework required because of the problems that have surfaced during the testing phase.

[BigDUSA 71]

That wasn't too difficult to predict ...

 

 

 

Another blast from the distant past. If I remember correctly Airbus A380 damn near killed the passengers and crew on a Qantas flight when one of the Rolls Royce engines exploded.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Another blast from the distant past. If I remember correctly Airbus A380 damn near killed the passengers and crew on a Qantas flight when one of the Rolls Royce engines exploded.

 

There is a difference between being nearly killed and actually being killed by a catastrophic engine failure. Many people have been killed as a result of P&W engine failure!

[jacko 8,813]

Another blast from the distant past. If I remember correctly Airbus A380 damn near killed the passengers and crew on a Qantas flight when one of the Rolls Royce engines exploded.

Stop being a drama queen. Nobody got so much as a scratch. Edited February 7, 2011 by jacko

[TheFiend 1,181]

Stop being a drama queen. Nobody got so much as a scratch.

 

But they nearly got a scratch.......