timesharing

[kinshasa 0]

 

Dear all,

 

My last trip to Pattaya was February 2007.

 

When walking alone on Second Road, I was approached three times by "falangs" on a motocycle (sometimes alone, sometimes with a girl).

 

As an introduction they always asked if I was speaking English.

 

After my positive answer they always wanted to know where I was coming from.

 

When I replied "Congo" (Hong Kong ? No, Congo !) which is a part of the truth (I live and work in Congo), they gave up. I guess that they also were part of the timeshare maffia.

 

I have been reading a lot before on "time sharing", but it was many years ago and apparently was a favorite scam in Spain.

 

Thus, alarm lights were on when I got invited several times on "statistics", this time by young Thai boys and girls on Beach Road. One Thai guy gave me a "scratch lottery" (forgive me my English) and guess what.... I won a DVD-player.

 

I only needed to go to Jomtien Beach to collect my CD-player. The Thai girl would drive me over there on her motorbike.

 

Again, alarm bells went on. I refused and continued my Beach Road walk.(also, because I just had withdrawn a huge amount of cash from an ATM machine).

 

Thus, so far nothing went wrong.

 

But, just to satisfy my curiosity: what happens/would have happened if I had gone with the girl. Would I have received my DVD-player ? Would they have made me sign an unreadible Thai contract ? Would they have threatened me over there ?

 

Somehow, I regret I didn't play the game till the end (but of course, without any signature). However, I intend to do so next time ( just for fun, and without any money on me).

 

Comments ? Advice ?

 

What is happening ?

 

Kinshasa

[richardm 1]

They are Timeshare scum, but they now call it a Holiday Club.

Don't believe it, it is the same thing under another name.

 

I went along on one of their jaunts once just to wind them up and waste 4 hours out of their miserable lives. Great to see their faces when I turned them down and said I was bored by it all.

 

Same pond scum are/were doing this in Phuket.

 

Its foreigners are doing this and they should be put on a black list and permanently excluded from Thailand, after spending some time in a Thai Jail first of course.

[sabang 0]

If you look at the annual 'management fees', they would cover the cost of your hotel anyway. When you consider they are raised basically every year, you wouldn't bother.

When you realise that most people who buy Timeshare relinquish them because they carnt be arsed with the annual fees, you would walk well away.

 

Up to you.

[hybrid 1]

I used to go look at them in spain to get the freebies when it was raining .

boring video followed by a hard sell where they keep trying to say the only reason you would not buy is if you were poor ..

in fact i remember i went and looked at one in phuket about 2 years ago .. raining of course .. but got 2 free tickets to the Phantasea show ..

they gave up totaly when i told them i had looked at a house for sale for the same price as there 1 week timeshare.

they relie totaly on dumb tourists with more money than sense. the package holiday brigade

[kinshasa 0]

 

Many thanks for the reactions.

 

Again: my question is NOT: is timesharing a good investment ? Of course, it is NOT.

 

My curiosity covers the following item: would they have given me the price I won, even if I didn't sign a timesharing contract ? Would they give me a price ? Would they treat me well (free drinks, nice girls) ?

Would they bring me back to Pattaya ?

 

My curiosity is: what happens if I hop on the motorbike with the (pretty) girl in the situation I described at the start ?

 

Kinshasa

[vegasdave 0]

sleeziest careers Top 10. Sorry if this offends anyone.

 

10. minister/priest/muhla

9. bill collector

8. cop

7. lawyer

6. real estate agent

5. car sales

4. insurance sales

3. time share sales

2. right wing radio host

 

and the winner by a huge margin

 

1. politician

 

 

To keep this somewhat on topic. It depends on the operation but yes you should get the "free" gift. Here in Vegas they are like rats. Every casino has a booth and people on the street try to snag you as well. Usualy with tickets to a second rate show. The will even have the nerve to ask you for a $20 "deposit" that they will give back to you when you show up. Basicly you will be put through a high presure sales pitch and end up being belittled and harrased.

Time shares are probably the worst scam around. But yet some people think they are great. These are usualy people who like the idea of having a place that is more like an apt as opposed to just a hotel room. But the economics make no sense at all.

Others actualy think they are buying something. Of course they aren't there are not property rights involved in the traditional sense. You are just buying time.

The latest twist is "condotels". In this scam you acutaly "buy" a hotel room. Not cheap I might add. 50k to 200k. Then basicly you "rent" it out on a nightly basis and it is admistered by the hotel itself. I am not sure what the split is but I am sure you come out on the short end of things. Could take decades to breat even on the deal. And meanwhile a bunch of fish paid for the constrution the hotel. Thus eliminating debt service for the operaters of the hotel. Brilliant actualy. Here in Vegas seem to be no shortage of fish. Just drop the line in the water and you are bound to catch something.

[MC_Ldop 40]

I thought these scams were called "vacation ownership" now.

[hybrid 1]

 

Many thanks for the reactions.

 

Again: my question is NOT: is timesharing a good investment ? Of course, it is NOT.

 

My curiosity covers the following item: would they have given me the price I won, even if I didn't sign a timesharing contract ? Would they give me a price ? Would they treat me well (free drinks, nice girls) ?

Would they bring me back to Pattaya ?

 

My curiosity is: what happens if I hop on the motorbike with the (pretty) girl in the situation I described at the start ?

 

Kinshasa

 

From my experiance of the one in phuket .

Yes they would give you a prize .. normaly the bottom one worth about 1000-200 baht . frequntly a cheapo DVD player or tickets to something like tiffanys.

Yes they would bring you back to town.

yes they would give you free SOFT drinks while you were looking .

and NO, they would not give you some nice girls to play with

 

and if you hop on the bike.. the girl will take you to the venue (or rape you if your luckey) and take you to the timeshare office where she gets a vouchers and departs leaving you there waiting for a hard sell

 

if you want to be treated extra well, get extra drinks, and annoy them

give a false name, and the wrong hotel (preferably one with 2 exits front and back)say your going to buy .. let them ring there bell, negotiate more freebies .. then they will want to take you to your room to get a deposit (your cards etcs, which you left in the room) . tell them you want ot take your freebies to the room now as time is ticking by and you won;t have chance later, also can the driver who takes you to the room to get the cards wait 5 mins while you cange into evening clothing (it will be evening by now as you will of spent the last 8 hours there!!) then,, in the front door and out the back and pat yourself on the back for a job well done..

 

of course this could be just my criminal mind on the go as i have to much time on my hands

talking of criminal minds .. has anyone ever tried stealing a complete ATM machine in patts ? so many of them around on sidewalks i can just picture a pickup and a chain pulling one out of its foundations

Edited November 21, 2007 by hybrid

[jacko 8,822]

has anyone ever tried stealing a complete ATM machine in patts

Yes, I think it was some Eastern Europeans yanked one out of the wall on the other side of Sukhumvit. They were caught as the mastermind had rented the truck and shown his passport to do so.

[capdagde 1,954]

Timesharing CAN be a good investment

 

(skip it if it's boring)

 

As it's come up - I'll give you all my tenpenneth. I have two timeshares - I bought neither after a pitch from a street tout.

 

The first one I bought in Saudi Arabia in 1995 after seeing an ad. It is a suite at Hotel Isis (5 star hotel) on an island in the middle of the Nile in Aswan, Egypt. It cost me 3K pounds for a six-person suite - red period - for 40 years. The annual fees are 100 dollars and they forget to ask me for the money....but I still get my week from the RCI bank.

 

The second one I bought on a welcome to RCI week in Spain in 1996 - they were trying to sell me Spain at 12K sterling but found me Goa for 3K sterling. It's at Royal Goan Beach Club in Goa, India - again 6-person apartment - red-period - but in perpetuity. The annual fees are currently around 200 dollars.

 

I'll cut to the chase:

If you are thinking of buying, buy at a LOW ENTRY PRICE (my two weeks cost 6K sterling)

Buy at a location where the LABOUR COSTS ARE LOW (Egypt and India fit the bill) this means the ANNUAL FEES will be low.

 

Note that the initial investment is LOST - you can NEVER sell timeshare at anything like what you bought it for. You need to USE it and suck out as much value as possible by making EXCHANGES TO LOCATIONS WHERE THE BUY-IN AND ANNUAL FEES ARE HIGH.

 

The current annual cost of my two weeks is:

RCI membership: 70 euros (+/- not sure)

Exchange fee for two weeks 400 euros

Annual maintenance 250 euros

Total call it 800 euros or 400 euros a week

 

Add to this low-cost airfares and you have great value.

 

Timeshare accommodation is usually 4 star and above - so my family 2 adults 2 kids have had high end holiday accommodation in Goa, Bali, Thailand, Spain, Tenerife, Sardinia, USA (twice), and the UK for the past twelve years. You cannot always choose where you go but you do discover all sorts of new places.

 

The best quality accommodation we have found is in the USA.

 

When we're retired (in LOS maybe) we'll live frugally and our annual treat will be a couple of weeks in a timeshare at a high end destination.

 

Just back from two weeks Tenerife at Club Casablanca and Hollywood Mirage - the buy-in there is astronomical and the maintenance fees enormous as they have excellent staff ratios and maintenance. But I'm not paying for it!!!!

 

Just my experience, but, on the whole, positive..... if you tackle it the right way, i.e. probably don't buy in Thailand! Maybe buy on the internet - loads of people want to sell 'cos they can't pay their maintenance fees. BUYER'S MARKET.

 

Andy Cap

[alancee 0]

ref HYBRIDS reply about dumb tourists and package holiday people,pattaya as a whole concept could not survive without them ,unless he knows better,im not dumb and i go on packages to pattaya 7th year running now and happy to do it that way

[Gary 4,119]

There are many people who will tell you how great they are and what a great buy you can get.

 

Looking into it a little you will find out those people who tell you how great they are are selling them. ASSHOLES!

[Zidane 11]

The only way you can win with timeshare is for you to use it as often as possible.

As well as the,say,two weeks you have paid for you can usually get bonus nights at a 70% reduction of the going rate.So a place costing usually 3500 baht a night you could get for a little more than 1000 baht.

BUT really you would have to live in Thailand to make this work.

If you live in the UK,for instance,the cost of coming over about 4 times a year would be prohibitive.Also if you only use it once a year you will never get value for money and the maintenance fee is just as high as two weeks in a hotel.

A mate of mine bought 2 weeks in a villa over here,used it once,then met a UK girl who wont let him come to Thailand.

That was 4 years ago.Occasionally he has got someone to rent but all that does is cover the maintenance fee.

He has no chance of recouping his investment and his options are continuing to hope someone will rent or writing it off as one of lifes bad experiences.

 

Zidane.

[hybrid 1]

ref HYBRIDS reply about dumb tourists and package holiday people,pattaya as a whole concept could not survive without them ,unless he knows better,im not dumb and i go on packages to pattaya 7th year running now and happy to do it that way

 

of course your not a dumb tourist, you redeemed yourself by useing these forums

realy though .. i'm refereing to the people who go on a package deal then do not venture out of there hotels grounds, only go on tour rep organised trips .. and such like. and believe the timeshare tout when he tells you its a good investment to spend £25,000 on 2 weeks of red time timeshare..

[sick buffalo 15]

Don't fall for it. Avoid them like the Plague...

 

Once you buy, you will never get a holiday when you need one

Holiday includes only stay NO food, pickup\drop very high joiner fee.

 

The AMS as somebody already mewntioned will be more than douyble the cost of a decent hotel

 

Your hotel will be located way off from happening places...

 

What if they close down? TShare in Asia is not regulated as it is in Europe or US...

 

STAY AWAY PLEASE

[ilovethailand 0]

I love my timeshare, it makes me get off my fat farang butt and travel to some new place

every year as I trade my week in Hawaii for almost any place in the world. I'm just to cheap

to let my week not get used ! If I do the "numbers" yes I could do better I guess but I really do

love the many new parts of the world I go to every year and the new color of the new girls.

[nus01 305]

 

Dear all,

 

 

 

But, just to satisfy my curiosity: what happens/would have happened if I had gone with the girl. Would I have received my DVD-player ? Would they have made me sign an unreadible Thai contract ? Would they have threatened me over there ?

 

Somehow, I regret I didn't play the game till the end (but of course, without any signature). However, I intend to do so next time ( just for fun, and without any money on me).

 

Comments ? Advice ?

The option is normally a heap of cash, a video camera or a holiday, you always win the holiday, two weeks accomadation in one of there time shares which even in the middle of the winter in their Siberian Hotel always seems to be booked out.

 

You have a poor idea of fun ,go spend two hours with a BG in Soi 6 than put yourself through a high pressure

sales presentation.

[Sailfast 503]

Time shares are a bad investment. Vacations are a bad investment. Dining out is a bad investment. Paying for pussy is a bad investment.

 

My parents own several time shares. I grew up going to the same time share for two weeks. We had friends that we met up with each year from all over. Pretty much a reunion over the same week every year. Kind of fun really. This was in the "early days" and I think it was harder to trade weeks.

 

I have another friend who has time in a premium spot and she just loves going through the RCI website and dreaming of her next time share trade. Whatever, it's a lifestyle I guess..lol

 

On thing is for sure, every time share I have stayed at was MUCH nicer than a standard hotel room. I rented a place in Los Cabos, Mexico last year through friend of a friend. Fucking HUGE 2 bedroom, 3 bath, (probably bigger than my house) and the price was very good value.

 

We all pays our money and takes out chances :)

[fd2084 0]

Timeshares can be a a good value if you like going to the same place every year and the timing works out for you. But make sure you understand all the caveats mentioned above. Double that for timeshares in Thailand where the likelihood of a scam or legal shenanigans is much higher.

 

Unless you're an insider they drop in value almost immediately, so the most obvious trick is to not buy them directly from the hotel/resort. Let someone else absorb that first hit, and then it's more likely you'll be able to sell yours later for close to what you paid for it (minus all fees, etc.) I don't believe they appreciate in value (not much anyway) like other properties so don't rely on that.

 

I think Zidane inadvertently gave the best reason for getting a timeshare in Thailand. Once you're locked in, you have to go back, whether you later get a new girlfriend or wife. Sorry, honey.

[capdagde 1,954]

There are many people who will tell you how great they are and what a great buy you can get.

 

Looking into it a little you will find out those people who tell you how great they are are selling them. ASSHOLES!

 

Hi Gary

 

If that was aimed at me - no I'm not selling them, I'm an English teacher in France. As to whether I'm an asshole, that's another question entirely and not for me to say...

 

Would I recommend timeshares in general? - No. Do I regret buying mine? - No.

 

As sickbuffalo says you usually can't choose where you want to swap to (we enter the dates when we can have holiday on RCI, see what's available and then say "why don't we go there"). As ILT says you end up going places you would never had thought of going. So it's not classic holidaymaking. We have only been once to the places we actually own so we don't have the meet up with old friends scene going like sailfast's parents.

 

I also didn't say they were great - just that I work hard to get the most out of them. After ten years of ownership I have definitely got my initial investment back and can now certainly write that off (cost of similar accommodation for a family of four in 4 to 5 star luxury). So from now on it's just high quality hotel accommodation for as long as I can be arsed to pay the (in my case) low annual maintenance charge.

 

But Zidane and fd are absolutely right - Thailand = no regulation, high maintenance charge(?), tied in.

 

If I was to buy another I'd probably by a cheap online resale, double checking the maintenance charge is low and bank through RCI - no need to ever go there!

 

Why would anyone buy timeshare in Thailand with such plentiful low cost high quality accommodation available?

 

Andy Cap

Edited December 24, 2007 by capdagde

[Gary 4,119]

My reply wasn't aimed at anyone because no one has tried to tell us what a great bargain they are. By reading your post, you feel that you got your investment back. I will dispute that for all but a VERY few. My brother in law has a five star timeshare but he is quite well off. He will tell you that he saves nothing because of high fees but that they still enjoy it because of all the swaps that are offered. A couple of years ago they stayed in Phuket and said they could have stayed in better places for the same or less money with no investment.

[fd2084 0]

If that was aimed at me - no I'm not selling them, I'm an English teacher in France. As to whether I'm an asshole, that's another question entirely and not for me to say...

You're relatively new here, so I feel the need to explain how the board works.

 

When someone posts a comment like Gary did, you have no choice but to take it personally. Don't give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was making a general comment or that it was just a loose, off-the-cuff generalization. It was a specific attack aimed at you and don't let him get away with it!

[Gary 4,119]

You're relatively new here, so I feel the need to explain how the board works.

 

When someone posts a comment like Gary did, you have no choice but to take it personally. Don't give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was making a general comment or that it was just a loose, off-the-cuff generalization. It was a specific attack aimed at you and don't let him get away with it!

 

And what does that make you? Are you the new forum shit stirrer? Anyone who takes an Internet forum too seriously is not real smart to begin with.

[fd2084 0]

And what does that make you? Are you the new forum shit stirrer? Anyone who takes an Internet forum too seriously is not real smart to begin with.

And what does that make you? Are you the new forum shit stirrer? Anyone who takes an Internet forum too seriously is not real smart to begin with.