Michael Vick makes a statement on the field!

[zaphodbeeblebrox 0]

Monday night's football game isn't over yet, but 4 passing TD's and 2 rushing TD's against the Skins on the road: 333 yards passing, 80 yards rushing. His stats are starting to look more like Elway. A dangerous passer, who can rush/scramble when there's a need. His passing rating is the top in the NFL at 105.3.

 

This was a key game for Philadelphia because it puts them in a tie with the Giants for the run at the conference title, and pushes the Skins to 2 games back. You can't ignore a team that puts 59 points up on the board on the road against a defense that is 8th in the league in points scored against them (19.4 pts/gm average).

 

You might hate Vick for what he did off the field, but he sure is making the Eagles look like they made a good choice by giving him another chance in the NFL.

[VicVegas 70]

It's a great story. He did his time for his crime and deserves to enjoy this fresh start. I'm definitely rooting for him. Along with Philip Rivers and Peyton Manning he's among the best QBs in the league this year.

[joekicker 53]

It's a great story. He did his time for his crime and deserves to enjoy this fresh start. I'm definitely rooting for him. Along with Philip Rivers and Peyton Manning he's among the best QBs in the league this year.

 

Philip Rivers? Seems you're just going by stats, so you'd have to put Orton and Tony Romo up there too. They have great stats. Are you saying David Garrard (number two behind Vick in the QB ratings) is among the best?

 

I'd be half-willing to grant that a lousy team can have a great QB, but it ain't Rivers. If Rivers was that good, San Diego would be a winning team, not a loser. They've got the personnel that can win twice as many games as they lose, but they're 4-5 in the worst division in the league. Peyton Manning is currently Number 10 in QB ratings but he's 6-and-3. And you're saying Rivers is better than Brady, currently 7-and-2? Pshaw!

 

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[JohnnyK 28]

Vick was fucking amazing last night! I think he gets it and knows he was lucky to get a 2nd chance. Hell of an athlete.

[LBJ 533]

He was certainly impressive last night but one game does not a career make.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Great performance, but I love dogs so he will never be anything in my eyes.

[joekicker 53]

Great performance, but I love dogs so he will never be anything in my eyes.

 

I think I grasp this, but you know -- if this is true, then why bother with all that justice system xrap and jail time? Why not just make every crime and every personal offence a life sentence, forget about "paying your debt to society" and redemption and all that nonsense. If you offend me one time, then off with your head.

 

I mean, in REAL life, people do regret their actions and people do change and people do redeem themselves.

 

Don't they?

 

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[midlifecrisis 4,030]

One great game does not the greatest of the current generation or of all time make.

 

When he wins a few Super Bowls please ask your question again!!!!!!!

 

One great quarter, one great game does not cement a legacy. You might as well ask how inept Washington's defense was and if they are the worst defense in NFL history.

 

And knock of the snide comments to Vick's previous non-football criminal activities. He did his time, he paid for his mistake.

[midlifecrisis 4,030]

I think I grasp this, but you know -- if this is true, then why bother with all that justice system xrap and jail time? Why not just make every crime and every personal offence a life sentence, forget about "paying your debt to society" and redemption and all that nonsense. If you offend me one time, then off with your head.

 

I mean, in REAL life, people do regret their actions and people do change and people do redeem themselves.

 

Don't they?

 

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My late mother, rest her soul, was like that. If she didn't agree with an actor's politics she couldn't enjoy his/her movies. The only redemption I think she would accept was a switch to the Republican party.

 

Hmmm, maybe that's why she loved Ronald Reagan!

 

It's a good thing for Ed Asner she never met him in person, hehe.

 

[joekicker 53]

I agree with you midlife, I think we all do, surely? VicVegas has been bringing a lot of phee-noms into the forum over past months like the 105-mph thrower Aroldis Chapman and the pride of the Washington Nationals Stephen Strasburg. Noticing these guys isn't any claim they're in the Hall of Fame.

 

I think Vick has done quite well this year. He's really rebuilt himself, and he looks like a quarterback instead of a "give me the ball" college star. The Washington game may have been a one-off for the massive stats, but Vick looks very good this year, in a way he never looked at Atlanta at all. He throws very, very well. He has excellent discipline in the pocket.

 

But as you say - a legend he ain't, not by a long shot, not for a few years, minimum.

 

I disagree a bit over the dogs. He's done his time, and he served it like a man, no whining. He gets to get back in society and all. But you don't HAVE to forget his pretty despicable crime, or like the guy personally in any manner. I'm reminded a little bit of Mike Tyson -- he did his time but he's still a 24-carat, star-studded jerk. In my book, I give Vick a lot of slack after the way he manned up, but some people won't, and it's their individual call.

 

Whoops I was posting this while you were posting about your Mom. I understand her view.

 

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Edited November 18, 2010 by joekicker

[midlifecrisis 4,030]

I agree with you midlife, I think we all do, surely? VicVegas has been bringing a lot of phee-noms into the forum over past months like the 105-mph thrower Aroldis Chapman and the pride of the Washington Nationals Stephen Strasburg. Noticing these guys isn't any claim they're in the Hall of Fame.

 

I think Vick has done quite well this year. He's really rebuilt himself, and he looks like a quarterback instead of a "give me the ball" college star. The Washington game may have been a one-off for the massive stats, but Vick looks very good this year, in a way he never looked at Atlanta at all. He throws very, very well. He has excellent discipline in the pocket.

 

But as you say - a legend he ain't, not by a long shot, not for a few years, minimum.

 

I disagree a bit over the dogs. He's done his time, and he served it like a man, no whining. He gets to get back in society and all. But you don't HAVE to forget his pretty despicable crime, or like the guy personally in any manner. I'm reminded a little bit of Mike Tyson -- he did his time but he's still a 24-carat, star-studded jerk. In my book, I give Vick a lot of slack after the way he manned up, but some people won't, and it's their individual call.

 

Whoops I was posting this while you were posting about your Mom. I understand her view.

 

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Vick did his time and I applaud his success and hope he has earned his lesson. I love dogs too. His crime was a difficult one to forgive, for many of us, but he is entitled to a second chance. I will never forget his crime, but to be abandoned by all of society after sentence is complete is a guarantor of worse things in store for both him and the society. I say give him a second chance. We may never forget but we can forgive!

 

Your critique of Vick's play this season is astute. Under Andy Reid he has developed the discipline needed to succeed with his skills. A time in detention did not hurt his maturation process - a true make him or break him environment.

 

I doubt Mr. Vick will ever transgress again. He seems, by all accounts, to have turned around.

 

edit: Thanks for the kind word on about my mom but I think she was wrong. She missed a lot by being so rigid. She was born in 1925 in Danzig, Germany (now Gdansk, Poland). She was a naturalized American, a war bride. A great lady but we had our differences.

 

For instance, I just don't like Ed Asner or Ronald Reagan as actors. It has nothing to do with politics.

Edited November 18, 2010 by midlifecrisis

[joekicker 53]

Your critique of Vick's play this season is astute. Under Andy Reid he has developed the discipline needed to succeed with his skills. A time in detention did not hurt his maturation process - a true make him or break him environment.

 

I actually wonder now if Vick sat in there and made up his mind to do better, do it right when he got out. I don't pay that much attention to him that I know him as a person, but he really has changed his style very much since the Iggles gave him Chance Two -- and I don't think a coach could do that much.

 

I absolutely, totally believe everyone gets another chance after paying the debt in the Big House. You don't have to forgive Vick or anyone else for what they did, but I think you can't use it to try to bring him down once he's done his time and walks out. As you say, if society continues to punish him by denying him, then there's really only one way he could go. He sure has a wonderful second chance, looks like he's grabbing it.

 

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[JohnnyK 28]

IMO, MV used to be a running back who took snaps and threw. He seems a more rounded QB now. I didn't realize he had an arm that good until the other night. He can be a nightmare for defenders, tremendous ability to improvise on busted plays.

Maybe he's still a jerk but he did the time and almost lost his career. People can and maybe should keep his past in mind but its no reason to throw it in his face every time.

Edited November 18, 2010 by JohnnyK

[midlifecrisis 4,030]

I actually wonder now if Vick sat in there and made up his mind to do better, do it right when he got out. I don't pay that much attention to him that I know him as a person, but he really has changed his style very much since the Iggles gave him Chance Two -- and I don't think a coach could do that much.

 

I absolutely, totally believe everyone gets another chance after paying the debt in the Big House. You don't have to forgive Vick or anyone else for what they did, but I think you can't use it to try to bring him down once he's done his time and walks out. As you say, if society continues to punish him by denying him, then there's really only one way he could go. He sure has a wonderful second chance, looks like he's grabbing it.

 

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Oh, I don't know if you need to really sit and think it through. Seeing a guy being another guy's bitch - and all the other violence perpetrated by men on men inside - may have enough of a visceral effect to make your mind up for someone without them having much of a thought process!

 

The hard part is disassociating yourself from those you used to hang around with.

[joekicker 53]

Oh, I don't know if you need to really sit and think it through. Seeing a guy being another guy's bitch - and all the other violence perpetrated by men on men inside - may have enough of a visceral effect to make your mind up for someone without them having much of a thought process!

 

I guess I phrased that badly. I meant for football, not for life. For what I saw, he made up his mind to "go straight" BEFORE he went to jail. What I meant was he thought through football while inside, decided he'd approach the game differently and "right".

 

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[midlifecrisis 4,030]

I guess I phrased that badly. I meant for football, not for life. For what I saw, he made up his mind to "go straight" BEFORE he went to jail. What I meant was he thought through football while inside, decided he'd approach the game differently and "right".

 

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Ah, I see, sorry for missing your point. I am not sure I agree. I think it has a lot to do with his coaches. However, you could be correct. What I have noticed since his return is that it is all about his team and not himself. The same seems to be happening with Ben Roethlisberger of the Steelers since his suspension. Sometimes we all just need a wakeup call.

[joekicker 53]

The same seems to be happening with Ben Roethlisberger of the Steelers since his suspension. Sometimes we all just need a wakeup call.

 

Very good. Yes, and it may take a long time or forever for such people to get redemption, but in the meantime it sure makes it seem worthwhile to give such people their second chance -- because some people grasp it and truly, really "learn their lesson". These are very good examples of people who seem so far to have really changed their lives by, first of all, taking advantage of their real skills and cutting out "the crap" that got them notorious. These two have changed their ways on the field. And as a spectator, I'm the winner, too.

 

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[JohnnyK 28]

Very good. Yes, and it may take a long time or forever for such people to get redemption, but in the meantime it sure makes it seem worthwhile to give such people their second chance -- because some people grasp it and truly, really "learn their lesson". These are very good examples of people who seem so far to have really changed their lives by, first of all, taking advantage of their real skills and cutting out "the crap" that got them notorious. These two have changed their ways on the field. And as a spectator, I'm the winner, too.

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Bottom line, there.

If people don't get a 2nd chance after they have paid the price we'll never know if they learned. Right now Ben & MV seem to have caught on. Its a privilege to get paid big $ to play a game you love.

Some good games this weekend. Colts-Pats always worth a look. And Giants-Eagles with Al & Chris is solid, beer chilling now!

[VicVegas 70]

Philip Rivers? Seems you're just going by stats,

 

I'd be half-willing to grant that a lousy team can have a great QB, but it ain't Rivers. If Rivers was that good, San Diego would be a winning team, not a loser. They've got the personnel that can win twice as many games as they lose, but they're 4-5 in the worst division in the league. Peyton Manning is currently Number 10 in QB ratings but he's 6-and-3. And you're saying Rivers is better than Brady, currently 7-and-2? Pshaw!

 

What are you smoking Joe? Rivers has been awesome. The Chargers have had a revolving door at wide reciever all season, the offensive line has let him get sacked 22 times (3rd most in the NFL), the running game has been mediocre (18th in the league), yet Rivers still has more passing yards than any other QB in the NFL and is currently tied for the lead with 19 TDs.

 

Yeah Antonio Gates is a stud at tight end, even when he's injured, and has 40 receptions and 9 TDs, but just look at who has been lining up at the wide-out spots: The Chargers number one guy has been Malcom Floyd, currently ranked as the 31st best wide reciever, below the likes of Brian Hartline and Mike Thomas. Then there's former Cowboy Patrick Crayton who has 25 catches. Could these guys start on any other team in the league? After that it's guys named Buster, Legedu, and Seyi. Darren Sproles, coming out of the backfield, has more catches than any of the Chargers wide recievers. Even with this group of no-names running routes for him, Rivers has still managed 215 completions - 4th most in the league. It doesn't matter who the Chargers throw out there at wide reciever, Rivers is getting the ball to them. He IS having a better year than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, and he's had less talent to work with.

Edited November 20, 2010 by VicVegas

[midlifecrisis 4,030]

Very good. Yes, and it may take a long time or forever for such people to get redemption, but in the meantime it sure makes it seem worthwhile to give such people their second chance -- because some people grasp it and truly, really "learn their lesson". These are very good examples of people who seem so far to have really changed their lives by, first of all, taking advantage of their real skills and cutting out "the crap" that got them notorious. These two have changed their ways on the field. And as a spectator, I'm the winner, too.

 

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And the alternative to not giving people a second chance is a much more dangerous society, imho.

[midlifecrisis 4,030]

Rivers is the league leader in passing yardage, tied for TDs thrown and third in rating:

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?sea...mp;d-447263-n=1

 

He has also been sacked 22 times but only thrown 8 interceptions.

 

It is not his fault San Diego isn't winning. Even then they are only a game out of their division lead.

 

A QB can not take you to the playoffs alone but you sure as heck can't get there without one - look no farther than Miami for proof of that (they are playing a third string QB now).

[JohnnyK 28]

mistake

Edited November 20, 2010 by JohnnyK

[JohnnyK 28]

Its a bit early to put MV in with Peyton, Brady and Brees. He hasn't won anything yet and he hasn't led any long drives to victory down a TD with a minute left against a good defense.

But he is the most entertaining QB right now.

Rivers is good, pas de question. Would you rather have him or Peyton/Brady with the money on the table?

[midlifecrisis 4,030]

Its a bit early to put MV in with Peyton, Brady and Brees. He hasn't won anything yet and he hasn't led any long drives to victory down a TD with a minute left against a good defense.

But he is the most entertaining QB right now.

Rivers is good, pas de question. Would you rather have him or Peyton/Brady with the money on the table?

That really isn't relevant. Teams and fans don't get to pick their quarterbacks that way. There is your for fantasy league point of view and there is the real world.

 

There are many QBs capable of winning a Super Bowl if surrounded by the right people and some of the greats when not surrounded by the right people haven't made it.

 

Is Elli Manning as good as his brother? He has a ring! I never thought Phil Sims and Jim McMahon were as good as Joe Montana but they had great defenses and adequate offenses, they made few mistakes and their teams won. Montana and the 49ers didn't win every year.

 

Biggest case in point in the current era- Trent Dilfer and the Baltimore Ravens won a Super Bowl in 2000. Dilfer was a bust with the poorly coached and talent lacking 49ers years later. He had a mediocre career at best.

[VicVegas 70]

Its a bit early to put MV in with Peyton, Brady and Brees. He hasn't won anything yet and he hasn't led any long drives to victory down a TD with a minute left against a good defense.

But he is the most entertaining QB right now.

Rivers is good, pas de question. Would you rather have him or Peyton/Brady with the money on the table?

 

Agreed on Vick. No one has said he's going to the Hall of Fame yet, but that performance vs Washington was legendary.

 

Same for Rivers, but he's having a great year so far. Of course I'd take Peyton and Brady over him with the game on the line, but IMHO Rivers has been the best QB in the NFL this season.

 

I won't be surprised if the Chargers get into the play-offs . . . and then perform their annual choke job in the first round. Afterall, Norv Turner is still driving the bus.