Airbus and Boeing products running behind schedule

[Cennn3 0]

787 Progress.

 

Take on 21 May 2007:

 

Take on 5 June 2007:

 

Pretty slow workers arn't they? Americans?

[Samsonite 181]

The first one takes a little longer. Once they get up to 100 out the door they hope to be able to assembly one every three days.

[Cennn3 0]

The first one takes a little longer. Once they get up to 100 out the door they hope to be able to assembly one every three days.

 

Three days to fully assemble a plane? Is that with everything on it? I have a friend who works in the industry and the hours they give them to do something are unbelievable. A repair that would take you 2 hours to do they get 8 hours.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Cennn3

[Samsonite 181]

Three days to fully assemble a plane? Is that with everything on it? I have a friend who works in the industry and the hours they give them to do something are unbelievable. A repair that would take you 2 hours to do they get 8 hours.

Yes, three days is the goal. When everything is up to full steam the plan calls for each piece to arrive from the sub-contractors "fully stuff."

With the volume of orders they have been receiving for the 787 I would not be surprised to hear Boeing announce a second assembly line. That depends, of course, on whether or not the suppliers can produce the parts fast enough to meet the demand.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Scalawag

[wacmedia 277]

With the volume of orders they have been receiving for the 787 I would not be surprised to hear Boeing announce a second assembly line. That depends, of course, on whether or not the suppliers can produce the parts fast enough to meet the demand.

 

Hi,

 

Well that US Airways order they were going to get instead of Airbus is one they no longer have to worry about.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

I know some American boardies on here question Airbus methods of counting orders so I've decided on a cast iron accounting sytem.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6765461.stm

 

 

AIRCRAFT DELIVERED IN 2006

Airbus: 434

Boeing: 398

[CheshireTom 1,377]

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner is expected to make its first flight in August of 2007 with delivery starting in 2008. As of now, Boeing has orders for 458 planes from 37 customers.

 

Today you posted ......

 

The plane’s first test flight is expected to take place by the end of September.

 

Does that mean it's not on schedule any more?

[Samsonite 181]

Today you posted ......The plane’s first test flight is expected to take place by the end of September.

Does that mean it's not on schedule any more?

No, Boeing has always said it will be August or September, I was hoping it would be sooner.

 

I know some American boardies on here question Airbus methods of counting orders so I've decided on a cast iron accounting sytem.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6765461.stm

AIRCRAFT DELIVERED IN 2006

Airbus: 434

Boeing: 398

Since you have posted this twice under two different topics (you must be feeling proud of yourself) here is my reply, a second time.

The usual, I see.

Now nice to ignore what was sold.

Let's see.....Airbus was founded in 1970.

The year they outsold Boeing, using predatory marketing tactics, was 2001. They had a 5 year run and Boeing outsold Airbus in 2006. That means Boeing will soon, once again, be delivering more aircraft than Airbus.

IF Airbus and Boeing used the same method of counting orders, either way, Boeing would have outsold Airbus in 2005, but then we wouldn't want to suggest, as we have so often been told, that the Europeans cousins could, or would, engage in any unethical business practices.

 

Well that US Airways order they were going to get instead of Airbus is one they no longer have to worry about.

Couldn't care less. It is not a flag carrier as we have no flag carrier and it is not an airline I would use as it doesn't fly anywhere I need or want to go.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Scalawag

[wacmedia 277]

IF Airbus and Boeing used the same method of counting orders, either way, Boeing would have outsold Airbus in 2005, but then we wouldn't want to suggest, as we have so often been told, that the Europeans cousins could, or would, engage in any unethical business practices.

 

Hi,

 

Because of you questioning whether Airbus were cooking the books I quoted the deliveries in 2006. Are you saying these are wrong as well ?

 

AIRCRAFT DELIVERED IN 2006

Airbus: 434

Boeing: 398

[Samsonite 181]

No, you take more orders, you deliver more aircraft. In another two or three years Boeing will be delivering more aircraft. Airbust had a good run for a few years, but it is all but over.

They are now claiming they don't want to be the biggest aircraft producer.

 

From a Wall Street Journal article:

 

"Mr. Gallois said Airbus isn't actively aiming to take back control of the market. "I don't think that our target is to sell more airplanes than Boeing. Our target is to be the best company, not the biggest, and I think that is a change from the past," Mr. Gallois said. He said Airbus isn't now actively looking to achieve a specific target for market share."

 

Sounds like he is looking for excuses for falling behind? Similar to a football player who is past his prime and gets traded to a team in secondary league.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Scalawag

[CheshireTom 1,377]

They are now claiming they don't want to be the biggest aircraft producer.

 

Whilst they have the A380 they'll remain the biggest aircraft producer ........ until such time as Boeing builds something bigger.

[Samsonite 181]

Whilst they have the A380 they'll remain the biggest aircraft producer ........ until such time as Boeing builds something bigger.

ho ho ho

Producer of the biggest commercial passenger aircraft, but not the biggest aircraft producer.

Edited June 21, 2007 by Scalawag

[cowboy 0]

Boeing and airbus have taken 2 different tracks. Much like sears and montgomery wards after WWII.

Sears bet on expansion and built stores as fast as the could on borrowed money. Wards palyed it safe trying to expand slowly. The economy boomed and sears was in place to take advantage of it. Today wards no longer exists.'

 

For Boeing and Airbus a similiar dramatic play has been made. Boeing has bet on producing a mid size aircraft that is highly fuel efficient. They will continue developement of Jumbo jets but that is second place to getting the 787 to the factory floor. Airbus bet on a new Jumbo jet. They also plan to produce a new highly fuel efficient mid-size jet but put it on hold until they get the 380 in production.

 

Fuel prices are up in the short term but the long haul is what matters. Only time will tell which company has made the right move. But we are witnessing a dramatic business play taking place. In a true free market one of the companies might be forced out of business. In reality neither the US or the EU will allow boeing or airbus respectively to fold.

[Cennn3 0]

Fuel prices are up in the short term

 

They are just up, they are not coming down much, believe it.

[Hub 203]

Whilst they have the A380 they'll remain the biggest aircraft producer ........ until such time as Boeing builds something bigger.

 

Clever use of words; Tabmule would be proud of you!

 

I sold my my shares of BA at 100 but put in another limit order at 96.25, hopefully it hits.

 

I agree with Zaph....box that EADS and BA will both go up with the replacement of the fleets and also on the "white elephant" comment - and lets be honest and admit Airbus has totally shit the bed on this one.

 

BTW, where is my email? I read news stories and you can't keep your friends up to date on how you are doing?

 

Hub

[wacmedia 277]

In reality neither the US or the EU will allow boeing or airbus respectively to fold.

 

 

Hi,

 

Too true mate. If Boeing was going bust the US Government would use taxpayers money to bail them out in the "interests of national security". I dont think there is a free market in any industry. There are plenty of cartels where companies arrange prices between themselves. Thats the way of the World and I can't see it changing any time soon.

[MrMango 667]

Hi,

 

Too true mate. If Boeing was going bust the US Government would use taxpayers money to bail them out in the "interests of national security". I dont think there is a free market in any industry. There are plenty of cartels where companies arrange prices between themselves. Thats the way of the World and I can't see it changing any time soon.

Don't be such a cynic. First, It's against the law, and eventually the truth comes out and the guilty pay. Second, I have personal knowledge in the electronics market there is fierce competition and free markets there.

 

As for Boeing, I doubt if the government would bail them out, just arrange a "shotgun marriage" with a suitable partner.

[eltib 54]

As for Boeing, I doubt if the government would bail them out, just arrange a "shotgun marriage" with a suitable partner.

 

They already did that when they asked Boeing to buy out McD in 1996.

 

I remember the day Boeing announced to buy out Rockwell. Everybody was happy and jumping up and down, that McD didn't buy us. 6 months later when they announced Boeing was buying McD, there were allot of long solemn faces, we knew the honeymoon was over.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

As for Boeing, I doubt if the government would bail them out, just arrange a "shotgun marriage" with a suitable partner.

 

Airfix springs to mind.

[eltib 54]

Don't be such a cynic. First, It's against the law, and eventually the truth comes out and the guilty pay.

 

 

Like Mike Sears and Darleen Druyun? Both got 6 and 9 months in jail at a federal resort. That was for fixing a $20B tanker contract. Now you have a the winner from the Survivor series on TV who didn't pay taxes on his $1M prize, and he got 4 years in jail in a hard time fed pen.

 

Seems to me there is a double standard on people with the ability to pay.

 

The great news is that Paul McNulty who prosecuted the Boeing fiasco has resigned from the US attorney's office. It had to do with the firings of all them US attorneys.

Edited June 23, 2007 by eltib

[Samsonite 181]

The new Boeing 787-8 standing on its own, two weeks before the rollout, and on its way to the paint shop.

Amazing how big that thing is, but you don't realize it until you see some people in the picture, see photo 1, to give you some scale.

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2007 by Scalawag

[sabang 0]

The Boeing 787 has stolen a useful march on Airbus, because it's two new products- the 380 & 350XWB- have been delayed.

Thats worth money in it's pocket.

 

The cash cows of Airbus are now the A320 & 330, both tremendously successful, and AB's order book is actually very healthy. If it wasn't for them, the A380 mess would have hit it much harder.

The A340 is not expected to get all that much in the way of new orders, although it has been a success for the company financially speaking- and theres still quite a few on order. For short term new orders, the 777 & 787 will have the lions share.

 

A380 revenue starts next year, the AB 320 & 330 series basically dominate their section of the market, but the A350 ain't going to roll out and start making cash until about 2014. Boeing will likely be dominant in the 777/787 range, AB in the A320 & super large 380 for the next few years.

 

So when you look at it, the two companies main strengths are quite different at the moment

[BigDUSA 71]

Looking good and it has it's engines attached.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

The Boeing 787 has stolen a useful march on Airbus, because it's two new products- the 380 & 350XWB- have been delayed.

Thats worth money in it's pocket.

 

The cash cows of Airbus are now the A320 & 330, both tremendously successful, and AB's order book is actually very healthy. If it wasn't for them, the A380 mess would have hit it much harder.

The A340 is not expected to get all that much in the way of new orders, although it has been a success for the company financially speaking- and theres still quite a few on order. For short term new orders, the 777 & 787 will have the lions share.

 

A380 revenue starts next year, the AB 320 & 330 series basically dominate their section of the market, but the A350 ain't going to roll out and start making cash until about 2014. Boeing will likely be dominant in the 777/787 range, AB in the A320 & super large 380 for the next few years.

 

So when you look at it, the two companies main strengths are quite different at the moment

 

I think that Airbus has a fair amount of flexibility in the medium term and has plenty of scope to absorb new orders in the 320/330/380 markets over the next five years, particularly when the Chinese assembly line starts work. Boeing has undoubtedly benefitted from the lack of competition in the 787 market segment but now has very few slots available until the 350 comes on line in 2013. I'm quite sure Boeing will be working very hard with the US legacy carriers to secure orders for its 737 and 777s over the next few years. There's certainly enough business to keep both companies reasonably happy for the next 8-10 years at least.

[Samsonite 181]

If the US legacy carriers place large orders Boeing will, most likely, open a second assembly line, provided their subcontractors and suppliers can keep up the pace.

At present, Boeing expects to have 42 aircraft parked outside its 787 final assembly building by the time the 787 receives certification and they start deliveries in May of next year.