Muslims

[judd 2]

Here in Aussie they dont mind using our massage parlours(brothels) and they are right into supplying heavy drugs whats the situation in your country are they involved in the crime scene? ?

[Gawd Elpus 798]

Here in Aussie they dont mind using our massage parlours(brothels) and they are right into supplying heavy drugs whats the situation in your country are they involved in the crime scene? ?

 

 

No more than Christians I guess, who do not live by the Bible. Ausralia being a Christian country as the Prime Minister pointed out the other day, but I thought the Jesus condemed those who fornicated out of wedlock and who visited brothels.??? Are brothels legal in Australia ? Funny old world aint it

Edited February 9, 2010 by Mr Pastry

[joekicker 53]

I would guess you couldn't name a religion, a group, a nation or a cult where every single solitary member lived up to the rules. When Jones started handing out the Kool-Aid, wouldn't you know some of the weak ones deserted the ship and just flat refused to die! I think they have jails in Oz, don't they? For people who don't live up to the accepted standard? It's a human thing, so I've been told, not that I'd personally know about such failings.

 

.

[MrMango 667]

No more than Christians I guess, who do not live by the Bible. Ausralia being a Christian country as the Prime Minister pointed out the other day, but I thought the Jesus condemed those who fornicated out of wedlock and who visited brothels.??? Are brothels legal in Australia ? Funny old world aint it

I do not remember that quote - Can you pls tell me where he said that?

 

The Bible only condemns out of wedlock sex with a married women

[atlas2 4,329]

What I feel Joe and pastry are saying............ is basically 'Let those without sin cast the first stone' And they've definitely got a point I can agree with. If 'we' all actually behaved as our various religious codes require the world wouldn't have a problem. But we know religion is often perverted by it's clergy, of all types, to outcast 'the other' and strive for dominance.

 

I think what Judd is saying and is right to say, is that Muslims are often first to 'cast that stone,' ( STILL, literally, 'cast that stone') and it should be pointed out, sometimes that Muslims have just the same human weaknesses and no more moral authority to judge others than 'we' have.

 

 

If I'm wrong on this, Joe,Pastry...........anyone, please let me know why.

[joekicker 53]

If I'm wrong on this, Joe,Pastry...........anyone, please let me know why.

 

No, speaking for me, that's about it. I think you're "wrong" only in the sense you're only including religions. Everyone is supposed to be moral, ethical and obey the basic laws of society - no stealing, no murdering, a very few other such social rules/laws. Sure that includes Christians and Rastas and Buddhists, but it also includes humanists and aetheists and, well, everyone.

 

And no group, no matter how you classify the groups, has people who do ALL of that good stuff and NONE of that bad stuff. Religious codes, of the major religions at least, are all pretty simple on behaviour "rules" -- and any organised society has pretty much the same rules. The OP is on about drug-dealing by Muslims, of which there is plenty, but any major group of humans has plenty as well -- religous, national, colour, creed -- no matter how you group them, humans always have some really, really bad characters.

 

Saudi jails are full. Thai jails are full. British jails are full. etc,etc. If there were "Muslim jails" or "agnostic jails" or "pygmy jails" or "BM jails" they'd be just as full. The OP is pretty silly. Of course all Muslims are supposed to obey the rules. So are all Christians, all Australians, all descendants of convicts, all patriots, all posters.

 

.

Edited February 9, 2010 by joekicker

[Obsession 571]

imho, the OP is talking about "practising muslims". Not many practising christians in the UK deal in drugs. I guess its the same in Australia. The two things dont seem to go together.

 

Pastry - Are you now admitting that muslims sell drugs in the UK? You previously said you didnt believe me and Mulphy that muslims sell drugs in Glasgow

[Gawd Elpus 798]

I do not remember that quote - Can you pls tell me where he said that?

 

The Bible only condemns out of wedlock sex with a married women

 

 

"Marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled, but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge" Hebrews 13:4.

 

What am I , a fucking vicar now ??

Edited February 9, 2010 by Mr Pastry

[Gawd Elpus 798]

imho, the OP is talking about "practising muslims". Not many practising christians in the UK deal in drugs. I guess its the same in Australia. The two things dont seem to go together.

 

Pastry - Are you now admitting that muslims sell drugs in the UK? You previously said you didnt believe me and Mulphy that muslims sell drugs in Glasgow

 

 

I never said they didnt, but what did say, is that in Glasgow, the majority of drug dealers are NOT Muslim. Two different things completely and you know it Nice spin though

 

Crime is commited in all countries, by all races and relugions of people, it is inherent within the humain condition, if not crime in the world would simply not excist.

 

If I am not mistaken, Australia was largely populated by criminals sent on ships from England was it not ?? The abos didnt seem to mind, not that they had much choice in it though

 

Glasgow was the Drugs and Murder Capital of Europe long before the Muslims arrived on the scene and t still is.

 

I often wonder why forums dont just have an anti-muslim thread section where all the posts of that nature are kept, because its the same argument, regardless of the title.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Mr Pastry

[Gawd Elpus 798]

What I feel Joe and pastry are saying............ is basically 'Let those without sin cast the first stone' And they've definitely got a point I can agree with. If 'we' all actually behaved as our various religious codes require the world wouldn't have a problem. But we know religion is often perverted by it's clergy, of all types, to outcast 'the other' and strive for dominance.

 

I think what Judd is saying and is right to say, is that Muslims are often first to 'cast that stone,' ( STILL, literally, 'cast that stone') and it should be pointed out, sometimes that Muslims have just the same human weaknesses and no more moral authority to judge others than 'we' have.

 

 

If I'm wrong on this, Joe,Pastry...........anyone, please let me know why.

 

 

Not far off the mark, but you would have to ask Judd on the other one, I am not sure that, this is how I interpreted it.

[Obsession 571]

I never said they didnt, but what did say, is that in Glasgow, the majority of drug dealers are NOT Muslim. Two different things completely and you know it Nice spin though

 

Crime is commited in all countries, by all races and relugions of people, it is inherent within the humain condition, if not crime in the world would simply not excist.

 

If I am not mistaken, Australia was largely populated by criminals sent on ships from England was it not ?? The abos didnt seem to mind, not that they had much choice in it though

 

I often wonder why forums dont just have an anti-muslim thread section where all the posts of that nature are kept, because its the same argument, regardless of the title.

 

I didnt spin it. You wouldnt believe that muslims were heavily involved in crime. Even Glasgows muslim MPs son got three years for a huge vat fraud.

 

Freedom of speech. Feel free to say anything you like about christians. Nobody will issue a fatwah if you insult christianity, or murder filmakers, attack cartoonist or take to the streets. No anti muslim stuff as far as I can see. The only muslims that get discussed are immigrant muslims and how they are behaving and settling into their adopted countries.

[judd 2]

I think what Judd is saying and is right to say, is that Muslims are often first to 'cast that stone,' ( STILL, literally, 'cast that stone') and it should be pointed out, sometimes that Muslims have just the same human weaknesses and no more moral authority to judge others than 'we' have.

If I'm wrong on this, Joe,Pastry...........anyone, please let me know why.

 

Thats exactly the point im trying to relate here.

 

thank you

Edited February 9, 2010 by judd

[lovedog100 1,372]

No more than Christians I guess, who do not live by the Bible. Ausralia being a Christian country as the Prime Minister pointed out the other day, but I thought the Jesus condemed those who fornicated out of wedlock and who visited brothels.??? Are brothels legal in Australia ? Funny old world aint it

 

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[sick buffalo 15]

Freedom of speech. Feel free to say anything you like about christians. Nobody will issue a fatwah if you insult christianity, or murder filmakers, attack cartoonist or take to the streets. No anti muslim stuff as far as I can see. The only muslims that get discussed are immigrant muslims and how they are behaving and settling into their adopted countries.

 

Completely agree... Islam gets offended at the drop of a hat... The religion needs its own law, its own form of banking, its own form of meat(halal), its own form of dressing, behavior, prayers... The religion can not fucking coeixist with any other religion...

[atlas2 4,329]

It's not Just Muslims you can't offend........They're just the most likely (in my opinion) to react to any perceived, or real (in their opinion) insult and see it as a moral duty to take bloody revenge in the name of their religion. (The Dutch guy who had his head practically severed for making a film as a case in point) Tell me another film director that's happened to.

 

It was done in the name of Islam and the overwhelming Muslim majority seem to me to be happy to play both ends towards the middle. On one hand they'll spout, 'it ain't all of us' while on the other privately and many publicly reckon he had it coming............The hardly veiled threat being, and so will anyone else that writes a book,or draws a cartoon...............Or publishes,prints..........delivers or maybe even reads or possesses such a blasphemy in their home.

 

Again please correct me if I've overstated that point.

[nidnoyham 30]

Why am I not surprised that JK and Mr Pastry were first to respond to this post ?

 

Remember the Muslim demonstrations in the UK about the cartoons in a Danish newspaper ? These Muslims were so outraged about their religious leader being shown as a terrorist, they marched on the streets with quaint little slogans such as " Kill the Infidel ! "- " Europe- your 9/11 is coming ! "- " Behead those who insult Allah ! "and a few other charming suggestions.

 

The police did not arrest anyone at the time, it was not a head splitting type of Demo'. Lets face it, if they want to kill you over a few drawings, what would they do if you clobbered them with a steel baton ?

 

Anyhoo, one of the demonstrators, was dressed as a suicide bomber, a black body vest with pockets all around. The police filmed him along with the others and lo and behold, when they studied the film later, this devout, enraged Muslim, was out on bail for selling Heroine and Cocaine.

 

Smart move, dressing like that when on bail- or did he think that he was bombproof ?

 

I think this type of incedent, is what the OP is talking about.

[Gawd Elpus 798]

Why am I not surprised that JK and Mr Pastry were first to respond to this post ?

 

Remember the Muslim demonstrations in the UK about the cartoons in a Danish newspaper ? These Muslims were so outraged about their religious leader being shown as a terrorist, they marched on the streets with quaint little slogans such as " Kill the Infidel ! "- " Europe- your 9/11 is coming ! "- " Behead those who insult Allah ! "and a few other charming suggestions.

 

The police did not arrest anyone at the time, it was not a head splitting type of Demo'. Lets face it, if they want to kill you over a few drawings, what would they do if you clobbered them with a steel baton ?

 

Anyhoo, one of the demonstrators, was dressed as a suicide bomber, a black body vest with pockets all around. The police filmed him along with the others and lo and behold, when they studied the film later, this devout, enraged Muslim, was out on bail for selling Heroine and Cocaine.

 

Smart move, dressing like that when on bail- or did he think that he was bombproof ?

 

I think this type of incedent, is what the OP is talking about.

 

 

Ordinary Muslims do not put out Fatwas on people, most ordinary Muslims to not get involved in Riots. It is extremists that carry out these sort of things and are few and far between.

You talk about "Muslim" demonstrations, well are the EDL demos in the name of an supported by all Christians, non-Muslims and British people ?? NO

 

Lets get this into perspective. Every time I read a case here, they are always about a small group or individuals and then the tag "Muslims" are stuck on.

 

Do some of you not realize the Goals of the Extremists, such as Al Quaeda ?

 

They not only want to terrorize the West, but drive a wedge between Muslims and non-Muslims, and the attacks on Bahli, The Towers, London transport, etc immediately transformed the way that many think about ordinary moderate Muslims. They want to to some western countries feel uncomfortable, they want to see anger amongst those populations, and when it gets nasty, they can step in and show support to their Mulsim brothers which they denied before, in order to make themselves heard and gain further support. They are clev er, murdering and manipulative bastards, but many are playing into their hands. These people have a global agenda, which goes far being bombing

 

Yes, they are Muslims, but they do not represent the Worlds Muslim population. My view is not to give this group of people and their cells, the satisfaction, by playing into their hands.

 

The rise in hatred of Muslims escalated after the terrible attacks on 9/11, London and the Bhali bombings, and more recently the airline incident. Ordinary Muslims are now being grouped together with scum like that. The West now fear these people so deeply that the fear and hatred has spread.

 

With regards to crime in Glasgow: I dont mean any disrespect to the place that you live in or were born, but its common knowledge in UK that Glasgow was a drug, crime,Murder and gang capital of Europe, long before the Muslims arrived, and considered one of the UK's biggest shit holes. Perhaps the arrival of the Muslims there is the last nail in the Coffin for some, but they are NOT the route of the problem, just easier to blame outsiders for all the ills of Glasgow. So one Muslim MP's Son was convicted of fraud ? 267 UK MPs have been fiddling their expenses for years costing Millions tho the tax British payer, how many of them are Muslims ???

 

As the Christian faith has now been abandoned by Millions across the world and particularly in the West, it becomes less of an argument against other religions to speak of a "Christian " country.

 

The UK is a country whos laws were based largely on the Christian faith, however there are few practicing Christians left. So one has to ask "why do Muslims take their faith so seriously" ?? perhaps as we used to do in the Middle ages, to the point of hanging non believers and torturing them for denouncing the Church. It is because the West has abandon med its faith, that many few other religions which practice theirs.

 

I read a speech from the Australian PM recently, which was full of sound bites and things that some what like to here. If he is serious, then he will act upon his speech, rather than just air his views as a politician. If all of these Muslims are free loader and sponging of the state, which has been implied, then why did the government allow it in the first place ???

 

The world IS changing, whether any of us like it or not. We can complain on forums like this, no one will have a fatwa imposed on them for doing so, but it will simply not change anything and just a way for people to get things off of their chest and to incite others to follow. IF I, or anyone else were to post a list of crimes carried out by non-muslims every day of the week, month and year in UK alone, people would get fed up with it and take little notice, maybe because its OK for our indigenous society to do so, but not another. Last week, 2 Muslim teenagers were st upon not far from where I live, by 7 white teenagers and nearly beaten to death. That is probably music to some ears, but not mine.

 

To be against, does not mean that you are for. My world is not as black and white as that. I am not a Muslim lover as has been said on another forum, but nor does that make me a Muslim hater.

 

What I despise most in life are Bigots and those who hate born out of Race and Religion and I have a choice in these kind of threads either to ignore them, or speak my mind and risk being ostracized by a few members, because I do not share all of their beliefs (ring any bells there) ?

Edited February 9, 2010 by Mr Pastry

[judd 2]

You should have your own preacher show along with all the bling they wear

[Gawd Elpus 798]

You should have your own preacher show along with all the bling they wear

 

 

Not a bad idea - The Rev Papa Pastry, I already have the bling, but its fake as usual.

 

What about Puff Pastry the rapper ?

 

A further point about Fatwas, Martin Luther King was killed for expressing his views and trying to promote Civil rights in the US. Are things so different, he was a religious man too,

Edited February 9, 2010 by Mr Pastry

[birdy 0]

I am going to say what I have said before incase anyone didn't bother reading it. Islam is not going away. It is the biggest world religion and it is getting bigger. You cannot fight it because you are fighting a belief, and history is full of examples of people who will die for what they believe.

 

Yes, there are Muslims who drink, shag white women, gamble, whatever, and bring disrespect upon their communities, but hey, there are Catholic priests who abused and fucked the arses of little boys for years. It doesn't mean all priests or Catholics are masochistic paedophiles.

 

With this insult thing, you know, I work with many muslims now-nurses mostly from Indonesia, and you know they are pretty broad minded, despite chosing to cover their heads and arms when at work. One or two of them I would love to get behind closed doors, I'll tell you that!!!!

Anyway, one in particular, I asked her why she wears her headgear and she said it is a personal thing. She was never that religious at school and when it came time for her to show her allegiance as it were, she started wearing it. Her mum said this would not last, but now it's personal for her. Now, one may think she is a pretty strict Muslim because of this, but she is just an ordinary, fucken well sexy clever girl. Many times in her (and the same goes for the rest) work she has had to put up with the comments and insults, but she doesn't go around spitting her dummy and issuing fatwas.

 

The thing is with all extremists, you have to make sure they do not have a popular following. Now the best way to make them popular to the more weak-willed fuckheads is to fuel their fire with protests, comments, and the like. It's like dealing with some cunt who slashes up in an attempt suicide. If you give him sympathy, he can justify what he did...oh yes, poor me, if you give him advice, like do it properly next time dickhead, he goes...the world hates me, I was right to do what I did. The advice...be careful what you say because you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, but which response is more likely to fuel the fire?

 

I am as annoyed as the next man at what some of these cunts have done. Air travel is a nightmare now, but then again, I lived through the IRA campaign as a kid in Belfast and I hated them for how my life was fucked up, but I didn't hate all catholics, indeed I married one.

 

I am not saying welcome some suicide bomber in for tea and a cheese sandwich, because yeah, they are cunts, but what I am saying is don't diss all Muslims because of the handful of what is as always the vocal minority, or you'll play into their hands.

[Gawd Elpus 798]

I am going to say what I have said before incase anyone didn't bother reading it. Islam is not going away. It is the biggest world religion and it is getting bigger. You cannot fight it because you are fighting a belief, and history is full of examples of people who will die for what they believe.

 

Yes, there are Muslims who drink, shag white women, gamble, whatever, and bring disrespect upon their communities, but hey, there are Catholic priests who abused and fucked the arses of little boys for years. It doesn't mean all priests or Catholics are masochistic paedophiles.

 

With this insult thing, you know, I work with many muslims now-nurses mostly from Indonesia, and you know they are pretty broad minded, despite chosing to cover their heads and arms when at work. One or two of them I would love to get behind closed doors, I'll tell you that!!!!

Anyway, one in particular, I asked her why she wears her headgear and she said it is a personal thing. She was never that religious at school and when it came time for her to show her allegiance as it were, she started wearing it. Her mum said this would not last, but now it's personal for her. Now, one may think she is a pretty strict Muslim because of this, but she is just an ordinary, fucken well sexy clever girl. Many times in her (and the same goes for the rest) work she has had to put up with the comments and insults, but she doesn't go around spitting her dummy and issuing fatwas.

 

The thing is with all extremists, you have to make sure they do not have a popular following. Now the best way to make them popular to the more weak-willed fuckheads is to fuel their fire with protests, comments, and the like. It's like dealing with some cunt who slashes up in an attempt suicide. If you give him sympathy, he can justify what he did...oh yes, poor me, if you give him advice, like do it properly next time dickhead, he goes...the world hates me, I was right to do what I did. The advice...be careful what you say because you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, but which response is more likely to fuel the fire?

 

I am as annoyed as the next man at what some of these cunts have done. Air travel is a nightmare now, but then again, I lived through the IRA campaign as a kid in Belfast and I hated them for how my life was fucked up, but I didn't hate all catholics, indeed I married one.

 

I am not saying welcome some suicide bomber in for tea and a cheese sandwich, because yeah, they are cunts, but what I am saying is don't diss all Muslims because of the handful of what is as always the vocal minority, or you'll play into their hands.

 

 

Good post, couldnt agree more.

[joekicker 53]

Remember the Muslim demonstrations in the UK about the cartoons in a Danish newspaper ? These Muslims were so outraged about their religious leader being shown as a terrorist, they marched on the streets with quaint little slogans such as " Kill the Infidel ! "- " Europe- your 9/11 is coming ! "- " Behead those who insult Allah ! "and a few other charming suggestions.

 

I'd like to live in your world, tight little fantasy where the only threat is dark-skinned heathens who claim fealty to some remote being they call Allah. In your world, no white mobs ever killed hundreds of blacks in the US. In your world, no white English merchants ever traded dark-skinned Africans. In your world, no white African rulers ever killed fellow black African citizens to enforce their apartheid. In your world, no white do-gooders ever ripped thousands of Aborigine children from their parents. You've never heard of the Rape of Nanjing, the slaughter of every single non-Khmer AND two-thirds of all Khmers. There are no riots in China by minorities against Chinese that are put down by heavy gunfire with hundreds of dead, and the Vietnamese government has never used violence against major uprisings by its minorities. The Black Hole of Calcutta, heard of that? It happened just before the Indian terrorists tried to damage the fine, upstanding white people who were just trying to help Indians, after all.

 

In your world, no black mobs attacked white and Hispanic people for no reason at all over and over and OVER AGAIN on the main street of Denver, Colorado in the past year. It didn't happen because they weren't Muslims.

 

What a nice world you have. Only Muslims do terrible things, and they never, EVER do them to you. Everything is, er, dark and white. Actually, truthfully, I'm glad I don't live there. It's too much like hiding under the blankets so the boogey man won't get you.

 

Yes, Little One, I actually remember the cartoon demonstrations you wrote about. They weren't just in England, by the way and they DID kill people (each other, thank Gorsch) outside your island. But I remember them in England SPECIFICALLY, because I was thinking at the time, hmmm, England, where the mainstream, white, non-Muslim, nominally Christian media called for the murder of President Bush. What *is* it about England that gets the murderous, homicidal violence flowing? Of course the English Infidel and Bush both survived the English violence, but I remember those things, you bet I do. Stupid, extremist, violent people get the front pages and we get to hear about you overseas. Some of us remember the Muslim part and the other parts, too.

 

Also, what birdy said. My opinion: You'd do better looking for what I'm sure you'd call "good Muslims", get with them, back them up in opposing these al-Qaeda, violent, murderous types who are destroying their religion, like the Christian Apocalyptists who do the mass suicide bit every now and again, but more importantly who actually hope to destroy the whole world and want to do their bit towards it. You might even enjoy having a beer or a Coke with a Muslim, now wouldn't that destroy your world view? Afraid?

 

.

Edited February 9, 2010 by joekicker

[birdy 0]

Good post, couldnt agree more.

Maybe we should start a board Pastry...The voice of reason-r-us...!

[Gawd Elpus 798]

Maybe we should start a board Pastry...The voice of reason-r-us...!

 

 

The |nfidels would soon attack We would be labeled a Terrorist Extremist Forum at the drop of a hat, no doubt.

[Gawd Elpus 798]

I'd like to live in your world, tight little fantasy where the only threat is dark-skinned heathens who claim fealty to some remote being they call Allah. In your world, no white mobs ever killed hundreds of blacks in the US. In your world, no white English merchants ever traded dark-skinned Africans. In your world, no white African rulers ever killed fellow black African citizens to enforce their apartheid. In your world, no white do-gooders ever ripped thousands of Aborigine children from their parents. You've never heard of the Rape of Nanjing, the slaughter of every single non-Khmer AND two-thirds of all Khmers. There are no riots in China by minorities against Chinese that are put down by heavy gunfire with hundreds of dead, and the Vietnamese government has never used violence against major uprisings by its minorities. The Black Hole of Calcutta, heard of that? It happened just before the Indian terrorists tried to damage the fine, upstanding white people who were just trying to help Indians, after all.

 

In your world, no black mobs attacked white and Hispanic people for no reason at all over and over and OVER AGAIN on the main street of Denver, Colorado in the past year. It didn't happen because they weren't Muslims.

 

What a nice world you have. Only Muslims do terrible things, and they never, EVER do them to you.

 

Yes, Little One, I actually remember the cartoon demonstrations. They weren't just in England, by the way. But I remember them in England SPECIFICALLY, because I was thinking, hmmm, England, where the mainstream, white, non-Muslim, nominally Christian media called for the murder of President Bush. Of course the Infidel and Bush both survived the English violence, but I remember those things, you bet I do. Stupid, extremist, violent people get the front pages. And some of us have selective memories about what we remember, but some of us have to live with ALL those horrible memories - the Muslim part and all the other parts, too.

 

.

 

yet another sound and well reasoned post.