Burqa's in Walking Street

[Gawd Elpus 798]

If your intention was to produce an example of muddled thinking, contradictory argument, superficial analogies and nebulous observations............And, while doing so fail to make a single lucid point,well you've succeeded brilliantly. Even by your woeful standards the complete twaddle above stands alone.

 

You won't see it of course.

 

Let's take just one tiny example of the superficiality of thinking.

 

The comparison between a nun's habit and women in burqas. Well yes they look alike...well spotted. 10 out of 10 for that. But do nuns wear their habit having the freedom to make that choice, without any coertion, social pressure or the enforcement of an all embracing law..........or because they were born in a Christian country happen to be a woman?

 

Maybe write to the link or don't bother.

 

You can argue till the cows come home, using semantics, but the truth of the matter, is that Muslim women are allowed to walk around in Pattaya in full covered dress.

 

It that is not to yours or anyone's liking then book an appointment with the Mayor of Pattaya. i am sure he would be delighted to receive you

 

Women in Chains V women being exploited, gotta laugh really at the strange dichotomy.

 

As you may not be aware, many Muslim women choose to cover and where religious costume, but you probably would not know that n your bigoted little world

 

There is no way of knowing whether the 3 women sighted by the OP, as to whether they were forced or chose it. Either way, it is not for us to tell them what NOT to wear either. Get my drift.???

 

You could walk around Pattaya dressed up like Ronald Mc fucken Donald for all I care, I dont go to Pattaya to research peoples dress sense. But you van bet your bottom dollar, that there are far more muslim women who are not covered in Pattaya, than those who are. So I would not be shitting my pants and holiday ruined by noticing 3 fully robed Muslim women in Pattaya, would you ????????????

 

I dont have much time for people watching in Pattaya, nor do I go about judging folk. Its a holiday town, with all sorts of visitors from around the world. They have spent their money, bought the ticket and its up to them what they do or how they dress and nothing I can do about it or wish to do. That is up to the Thais.

 

There is a beggar around, with half of his fucken face missing. When he taps me on the should from behind, it scares the living shit out of me, but does not ruin my evening,

 

Now if I were to see gangs of armed terroriss roaming WS, then that might spoil things a bit for me, but so far I consider myself lucky in not seeing any

 

 

 

 

 

 

[atlas2 4,329]

As you may not be aware, many Muslim women choose to cover and where religious costume, but you probably would not know that n your bigoted little world

 

There is no way of knowing whether the 3 women sighted by the OP, as to whether they were forced or chose it. Either way, it is not for us to tell them what NOT to wear either. Get my drift.???

 

 

I dont have much time for people watching in Pattaya, nor do I go about judging folk. Its a holiday town, with all sorts of visitors from around the world. They have spent their money, bought the ticket and its up to them what they do or how they dress and nothing I can do about it or wish to do. That is up to the Thais.

 

There is a beggar around, with half of his fucken face missing. When he taps me on the should from behind, it scares the living shit out of me, but does not ruin my evening,

 

Now if I were to see gangs of armed terroriss roaming WS, then that might spoil things a bit for me, but so far I consider myself lucky in not seeing any

 

 

 

 

 

You chose to reply to my post......So write to my link which was about a dress code enforced so strictly that it meant Religious Muslim police forbade and physically prevented the rescue of 15 teenage girls and locked the doors against their escape from fire because ............they had been involved in a school PE lesson and were not dressed to be seen alive.............

 

All you've said about the incident is that you're, "not in favour of an enforced dress code" The rest amounts to avoidance or mitigation of the incident. Is that really all your woolly minded, perniciously PC brainwashed, supposedly un biggoted mind can can bring itself to say?

 

I'm forced to digress and discuss the PC thinking that motivates your posts.

 

PC thought in nearly every instance is either the acceptance of a lie, a denial of a truth or the cowardly failiure to face up to a truth.

 

15 girls burn when they could have been saved you say bugger all about it and I'm the bigot!

 

You know there's often truth in humour maybe you can face up to this............Whenever I recall the lines below from 'Yes Prime Minister' it brings the wishy-washy thinking behind the views expressed in the majority of your feeble minded daft, daffy and actually dangerous posts to mind.

 

 

Sir Humphry "He's against oppression in Africa."

 

PM. "Surely that's a good thing"

 

Sir Humphry. "You don't understand...He's against all oppression in Africa, even the oppression of the Black goverments."

 

PM. "Oh you mean he's a racist"!

Edited October 15, 2011 by atlas2

[joekicker 53]

You chose to reply to my post......So write to my link which was about a dress code enforced so strictly that it meant Religious Muslim police forbade and physically prevented the rescue of 15 teenage girls and locked the doors against their escape from fire because ............they had been involved in a school PE lesson and were not dressed to be seen alive.............

 

You mean the Thai girls killed by fire because they were chained to the beds in Phuket?

 

.

[mmaaarrrkkk 41]

Why do you guys insist to paint everyone with the same brush? Same same as chrstians , buddhist and other religions , there are devout ones , carefree ones , extreme ones. There are so many muslims in so many countries , I am sure the one YOU came across and 'speak from personal experiences' are not a true representation of all muslims. Do you see other people throwing christians views on someone coz he's falang? Falang = christians has to be 100% right? If you can think your way , you must be allowed to be ramnmed down your throat with 'your religion' as well.

 

Just an example , Indonesia alone has alot more than 2 different views of the religion.

 

Open your mind to different experiences and views and I dont just mean trying a new position with the barfine! Open your mind to the view that some people like their life ; regardless if its controlled or restricted.

 

Another example , if you cant see the religion angle , some party animals settle down after marriage but are content to play the family man now, Why , coz they're happy and dont see a need to cuddle a 20yo thai girl when the family's waiting for him back home for dinner.

Edited October 15, 2011 by mmaaarrrkkk

[jacko 8,813]

 

As you may not be aware, many Muslim women choose to cover and where religious costume, but you probably would not know that n your bigoted little world

 

 

I suppose you mean wear......

Please define many, more than 3 or some sizeable percentage of the total 800,000,000 Muslim women?

100 Million of them live in Indonesia and choose not to wear Burkas.

60% of them live in Asia where dress codes are not so severe.

 

Define 'cover up'....we were talking Burkas, which of course has nothing to do with religion, nor is it a religious costume. I would be interested to see an Islamic costume, I don't know of one.

 

I think the definitions in Islam are:-

(1) The BEST garment is the garment of righteousness.

 

(2) Whenever you dress , cover your chest (bosoms).

 

(3) Lengthen your garment.

 

I am not convinced that enforcement of wearing Afghanistan style Burkas would be accepted by many in Indonesia, Thailand, Turkey, Malaysia etc.

I suggest the line quoted above is a fabrication of your mind.

[atlas2 4,329]

You mean the Thai girls killed by fire because they were chained to the beds in Phuket?

 

.

 

No I didn't know about this. It sounds from the brief description equally tragic. Certainly not an incident anyone would try to score cheap debating points with on a chat board.

Edited October 15, 2011 by atlas2

[nidnoyham 30]

Why do you guys insist to paint everyone with the same brush? Same same as chrstians , buddhist and other religions , there are devout ones , carefree ones , extreme ones. There are so many muslims in so many countries , I am sure the one YOU came across and 'speak from personal experiences' are not a true representation of all muslims. Do you see other people throwing christians views on someone coz he's falang? Falang = christians has to be 100% right? If you can think your way , you must be allowed to be ramnmed down your throat with 'your religion' as well.

 

Just an example , Indonesia alone has alot more than 2 different views of the religion.

 

Open your mind to different experiences and views and I dont just mean trying a new position with the barfine! Open your mind to the view that some people like their life ; regardless if its controlled or restricted.

 

Another example , if you cant see the religion angle , some party animals settle down after marriage but are content to play the family man now, Why , coz they're happy and dont see a need to cuddle a 20yo thai girl when the family's waiting for him back home for dinner.

 

Very true. The lady I spoke of is half Muslim and half R.C. Christian, but as her dad was Muslim.... The only Muslim observation she follows is not eating pork. She eats non Hal Al meat, Drinks, smokes Ganja..

 

Interestingly, she belongs to a Indonesian based spiritual, multifaith group called SUBUD. They have groups all over the world. All a bit weird, the ones I have met- mostly middle class Europeans. Some, like this woman, have had a traumatic past. She detests Islamic extremist behaviour. As I said before, her hubby gave up his post as a RC missionary to marry her. His family in Holland have never forgiven her for burying him in a Muslim plot of land near Heathrow Airport,even though it was his wish. Her children all speak fluent Indonesian, but are of no strong religious following. She left it up to them to do as they wish.

[joekicker 53]

Just an example , Indonesia alone has alot more than 2 different views of the religion. grin

 

Well, I think Thailand would be a better example, where there are many more than two branches of Islam. For example. In recent years, the Shiites in the Min Buri area of Bangkok have decided the women should cover up in a way that delights the religious police of Iran -- and they do it BECAUSE of Iran. It's just an example of what you're on about, but quite visible.

 

No I didn't know about this. It sounds from the brief description equally tragic. Certainly not an incident anyone would try to score cheap debating points with on a chat board.

 

EXACTLY what I was thinking. Weirded me out when I saw it. On the other hand, it *is* an actual event, and the sort of thing people use to show gross hypocrisy by followers of a major religion. And they're not wrong, but to me the point is that PEOPLE are hypocrites, without reference to their professed religion, and it's not hard to find examples.

 

But I have (often) wondered why Muslims are figuratively whipped here so often about their hypocrisy while peaceful, loving, tolerant Buddhists are not.

 

.

Edited October 15, 2011 by joekicker

[atlas2 4,329]

EXACTLY what I was thinking. Weirded me out when I saw it. On the other hand, it *is* an actual event, and the sort of thing people use to show gross hypocrisy by followers of a major religion. And they're not wrong, but to me the point is that PEOPLE are hypocrites, without reference to their professed religion, and it's not hard to find examples.

 

But I have (often) wondered why Muslims are figuratively whipped here so often about their hypocrisy while peaceful, loving, tolerant Buddhists are not.

 

.

 

EXACTLY what I was thinking too.....I was well wierded out! Were the girls in Phuket forceably locked in on the authority of Buddhist religious police?

 

You're right about the hypocrisy all around us.

 

Maybe you could start a thread about it.

Edited October 16, 2011 by atlas2

[Hami123456 7]

Some People just makes assumptions then answer them. It’s like learning about Christianity from a Jew or about Judaism from an atheist.

[Gawd Elpus 798]

Some People just makes assumptions then answer them. It's like learning about Christianity from a Jew or about Judaism from an atheist.

 

Indeed. I think that if some of the guys here were to take the time to actually communicate with Muslims, rather than to judge from a distance, then they may actually learn something about the culture and religion.

 

"oh, but they dont want to integrate" I hear. Well exactly who is it that does not want to integrate ?? There is a massive ignorance out there, and confusions. The idea that all Muslim women will be stoned to death if they do not cover themselves or wear the appropriate dress, is used as yet another assumption and reason for hating Islam, but some are blinded by prejudice

 

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/23/muslim-women-who-wear-the-hijab-and-niqab-explain-their-choice/

[Obsession 571]

"oh, but they dont want to integrate" I hear. Well exactly who is it that does not want to integrate ??

 

 

Muslims. They refuse to integrate wherever they settle, and will even go as far as whacking their own daughters or sisters if they go with a non muslim. I have told you before about the hidden camera documentaries showing their anti jew and christian teachings in UK mosques etc. But you are being silly mate. Even the government has said multi culturism has failed and they want immigrants to integrate more. Maybe you don't read or hear the media. But you are the only guy who seems to think they integrate well

 

Indeed. I think that if some of the guys here were to take the time to actually communicate with Muslims, rather than to judge from a distance, then they may actually learn something about the culture and religion.

 

Is there anyone on the thread who has never communicated , been neighbours or done business with muslims? I don't think so.

 

The idea that all Muslim women will be stoned to death if they do not cover themselves or wear the appropriate dress,

 

 

Nobody has ever said all muslim women will be stoned to death. That is just your usual lack of an argument, so you say stuff that nobody has said. Poor show old bean

[joekicker 53]

EXACTLY what I was thinking too.....I was well wierded out! Were the girls in Phuket forceably locked in on the authority of Buddhist religious police?

 

Yes. In fact they DIRECTLY were involved.

 

.

[joekicker 53]

Muslims. They refuse to integrate wherever they settle, and will even go as far as whacking their own daughters or sisters if they go with a non muslim.

 

You've been proved wrong on this before. There were TWO threads that proved you wrong. Let's not start this nonsense again.

 

Muslims are integrated in many places. It's a fact. You admitted it. Now let's move on. You can't prove that ALL Muslims do something in ALL places by presenting anecdotes about what SOME Muslims do in SOME places. We settled this. Open your mind, you were wrong in this particular claim. Let's not replay the whole gory episode for the third time.

 

.

[Gawd Elpus 798]

Muslims. They refuse to integrate wherever they settle, and will even go as far as whacking their own daughters or sisters if they go with a non muslim. I have told you before about the hidden camera documentaries showing their anti jew and christian teachings in UK mosques etc. But you are being silly mate. Even the government has said multi culturism has failed and they want immigrants to integrate more. Maybe you don't read or hear the media. But you are the only guy who seems to think they integrate well

 

 

 

Is there anyone on the thread who has never communicated , been neighbours or done business with muslims? I don't think so.

 

 

 

 

Nobody has ever said all muslim women will be stoned to death. That is just your usual lack of an argument, so you say stuff that nobody has said. Poor show old bean

 

Obviously not, if they do not integrate Make your mind up

 

 

 

[Obsession 571]

Obviously not, if they do not integrate Make your mind up

 

You need a dick...............tionary , mate They will serve you in their shops , and they have to initially buy their properties from us until they take over the neighbourhood! But they aren't really integrating. But don't take my word. Ask David Cameron. He's the British PM! There is minimal interaction between muslims and non muslims. You get every other immigrant group in marriages and relationships in the UK and I don't think any others refuse to use swimming pools that "kaffirs" have used etc. It all makes for a segregated society. Seeing that us Brits get along with everyone else , and indeed, let them settle in the UK. I have to put the blame at their feet.

 

 

This thread is a great example of how you are not allowed to say anything against a muslim. The OP said he didn't like seeing a woman in a burkha. His freedom of thought. And out come the attacks lol.

[Gawd Elpus 798]

You need a dick...............tionary , mate They will serve you in their shops , and they have to initially buy their properties from us until they take over the neighbourhood! But they aren't really integrating. But don't take my word. Ask David Cameron. He's the British PM! There is minimal interaction between muslims and non muslims. You get every other immigrant group in marriages and relationships in the UK and I don't think any others refuse to use swimming pools that "kaffirs" have used etc. It all makes for a segregated society. Seeing that us Brits get along with everyone else , and indeed, let them settle in the UK. I have to put the blame at their feet.

 

 

This thread is a great example of how you are not allowed to say anything against a muslim. The OP said he didn't like seeing a woman in a burkha. His freedom of thought. And out come the attacks lol.

 

Of course we are allowed, its all been said. what you really mean is that those who make anti Muslim remarks, don't want to hear the other side of the story, or have anyone disagree with them.

 

There are two sides to every coin my friend, and both sides are being aired here.

 

 

 

In terms of multiculturalism in Pattaya, would you suggest then that only westerners and Thais be allowed to be there, after all they share the same culture ?? do they ??

 

Next time you are in Pattaya, have a look at the big bike rental place at the bottom of Soi Post Office. There are a bunch of covered Thai Muslim women working there, renting out bikes and have been for years. Does that also offend some people ??

 

Should we now be saying that multi culturalism does not work in holiday resorts and that they should be confined to certain nationalities, races and religions ??

 

No disrespect to the OP, Grahamxxx, but I find the idea that seeing 3 women in burkas, ruined his holiday, quite laughable.

 

Perhaps if they were blowing themselves up and all around them, I could understand it

Edited October 16, 2011 by Gawd Elpus

[atlas2 4,329]

Yes. In fact they DIRECTLY were involved.

 

.

 

Pray tell!

 

 

[Obsession 571]

In terms of multiculturalism in Pattaya, would you suggest then that only westerners and Thais be allowed to be there, after all they share the same culture ??

 

I have never complained about muslims, Arabs, Russians or Indians ( except pushy tailors), like many do on the forums. You may remember me starting a thread on your forum asking why people complained about Indians and Russians. If you don't realize after all our discussions that I like all foreigners, then your not being very alert mate. Complaining when my tax money is being given away, or exploding terrorists and people who won't integrate in my country , doesn't mean I dislike them.

 

 

Next time you are in Pattaya, have a look at the big bike rental place at the bottom of Soi Post Office. There are a bunch of covered Thai Muslim women working there, renting out bikes and have been for years. Does that also offend some people ??

 

 

I was seeing a Thai muslim. She sometimes wore a headscarf. Though not when with me. Although , because I made her walk a few paces behind me and not speak, she may have worn it behind my back!!!!!!!

 

 

 

No disrespect to the OP, Grahamxxx, but I find the idea that seeing 3 women in burkas, ruined his holiday, quite laughable.

 

He didn't say it ruined his holiday.

I understand what he meant as I don't like to see women in burkhas as I have trouble believing they wear them by choice. Although a tiny few may. To me it is a symbol of female oppression and I feel sorry for the woman.

 

Perhaps if they were blowing themselves up and all around them, I could understand it

 

How dare you sir. Not all muslims are terrorists

[joekicker 53]

Pray tell!

 

You may have heard that police in Thailand are sometimes involved in illegal pursuits. That includes brothels, and it involved this brothel, as legal proceedings later showed conclusively. It turned out all of them were religious and supposedly pious Buddhists -- as it so often does turn out in Thailand. For the record, I do not believe for a New York millisecond that there is cause and effect.

 

But really, after the third reference, don't you feel you should research it a bit yourself if you want the full, in-depth story?

 

.

[atlas2 4,329]

You may have heard that police in Thailand are sometimes involved in illegal pursuits. That includes brothels, and it involved this brothel, as legal proceedings later showed conclusively. It turned out all of them were religious and supposedly pious Buddhists -- as it so often does turn out in Thailand. For the record, I do not believe for a New York millisecond that there is cause and effect.

 

But really, after the third reference, don't you feel you should research it a bit yourself if you want the full, in-depth story?

 

.

 

Well I did research it..... But you spuriously led me to believe that there exists a bespoke, 'Buddhist Religious Police' that I was hithertoo unaware of. And that this force functions along the same lines as the Mutaween on behalf of the CPVPV in Saudi Arabia. And that this organisation was authorised to kill these women possibly I thought because of a breach of some Buddhist doctrine. ..

 

......So if you trustingly google, as I did, 'Buddhist Religious Police burn girls Phuket' Well, in a Scunthorpe millisecond....you get........ bugger-all! Bugger-all that's relevant anyway.

 

If your point was that all people from all beliefs commit atrocities. I accept the argument and frankly I can't think for the-life-of-me why 'that' has never struck me before. You'll be telling me Dolly Parton sleeps on her back next!

 

But if your point was to signal hypocrisy..Well yes. Thai police entrusted to, 'protect and serve' behaving in this muderous and criminal way. Couldn't think of a more graphic example of betrayal and hypocrisy meself!

 

 

But, if that's your point.........you missed the point.

 

The Mutaween were authorised (that's the difference), to lock these girls in. It is what they were required and empowered to do. They bear the responsibility for these completely avoidable deaths. But because their actions were on the behalf of their govermnet and their religion, they did no wrong, No hypocrisy here, no charges either, no moral guilt.............because these 15 girls were without a head scarf.... you see!

 

I doubt if the group of ex-cons and religious thugs that made up the Mutaween brigade that day lost any sleep. I mean you can understand the circumstances. The girls were, without ...... a ...... head .... scarf!!

 

 

I would have just liked to have heard an unqualified condemnation from you, or GE about THIS incident............. I'd have been content with an expression of sympathy. But all we get are snied, 'what about politics' from you, and what amounts to mitigation from the obsolete, or damaged intellectual equipment that Gawd is forced to function with these days.

 

Oh........ and claims that I'm a bigot.......

 

It make you want to weep.

Edited October 17, 2011 by atlas2

[CheshireTom 1,377]

 

The Mutaween were authorised (that's the difference), to lock these girls in. It is what they were required and empowered to do. because these 15 girls were without a head scarf.... you see!

 

 

 

ISOC was authorised to 'process' 1,000 Rohingya refugees who were subsequently towed out to sea and left to their fate (deaths) simply because they were Muslim.

 

They bear the responsibility for these completely avoidable deaths. But because their actions were on the behalf of their government and their religion, they did no wrong, No hypocrisy here, no charges either, no moral guilt.............

 

Just goes to prove there's bad fuckers everywhere.

 

As an aside, it appears our government thinks those Saudi folk are OK ... but those nasty Iranian Muslims ain't. Which is a bit of a shame as I've got a thing for Iranian women.

 

 

[CheshireTom 1,377]

It totally fits with the thread when you go for a wander around the Arab area of Pattaya. Have you noticed those pious Arabs all with bottles of booze on the tables? Have you noted them with the Pattaya bar girls? Its OK for the men to flout the code but not for the women. I usually walk through Covent Garden each night and then through the drumming plaza. I once was silly enough to point a camera at the area and was quickly told that it was a no no. Go to Walking Street and every other tourist has a camera out but point it on an Arab as he is breaking the sharia law and you are risking life and limb.

I am not anti anybody other than anti hypocrites and there are a lot of them in Pattaya but I have to put the Arabs at the top of the list.

 

You need to learn the difference between Arabs and Muslims.

 

 

 

[nidnoyham 30]

IS

 

As an aside, it appears our government thinks those Saudi folk are OK ... but those nasty Iranian Muslims ain't. Which is a bit of a shame as I've got a thing for Iranian women.

 

Yeah, but it's only a little thing.

[atlas2 4,329]

ISOC was authorised to 'process' 1,000 Rohingya refugees who were subsequently towed out to sea and left to their fate (deaths) simply because they were Muslim.

 

They bear the responsibility for these completely avoidable deaths. But because their actions were on the behalf of their government and their religion, they did no wrong, No hypocrisy here, no charges either, no moral guilt.............

 

Just goes to prove there's bad fuckers everywhere.

 

As an aside, it appears our government thinks those Saudi folk are OK ... but those nasty Iranian Muslims ain't. Which is a bit of a shame as I've got a thing for Iranian women.

 

 

 

I get it already.........There aren't any countries/religions that do not have a stain of blood somewhere in there history. None.

 

But this thread is about the burqa..........Some say its just an innocuous item of clothing. I think I've shown that it in this incident it is more than that. If you want to draw parallels Tom look at today's date and tell me another religion today that would tolerate the death of its daughters because they were not dressed in an item of religious clothing......