Investing in Pattaya Real estate?

[Parkwahn 61]

Many people I know have made lots of money in Pattaya real estate. Only the ones that don't invest keep harping about how it can't be done. But it surely requires a lot of caution as bigmick and others have stated.

Jack

Very true,

[js007 795]

Just looking over some old real estate threads. Five or six years ago, I was of the opinion the market was overbuilt and a crash would come if I waited long enough. Well, here it is and it's 2018 and prices keep going up, or so it seems. I'd like to buy something, but I'm trying to not be stupid about it. A condo in Pattaya, Bangkok, or Phuket. Built buy a reputable quality company. But I'd rather not pay more than 6 million baht. And I'd rather not pay that for 30 sq. meters.

[Butch 3,456]

I think the market remains saturated. High end stuff will always be at a certain price point, but at the lower end of the market it is always possible to negotiate discounts.

 

From our point of view I know the market pretty well in Manila where we have a few condo's which provide us with a rental income, they are all small units (relatively speaking, 40 - 55 SqM) and are rented out to students and local workers. We always buy off plan, always pay the initial deposit in cash and fix a repayment percentage at 0% over 3 years with a final payment.

 

With the smaller units it's easy to do this due to the amount available, but at the high end there is little or no flexibility unless you get in really early, i.e 3 years before the project is due to be finished.

 

I would imagine since the russians stopped coming and buying up condo's due to the rouble dropping in value since 2013 there must be more around.

[js007 795]

I think the market remains saturated. High end stuff will always be at a certain price point, but at the lower end of the market it is always possible to negotiate discounts.

 

From our point of view I know the market pretty well in Manila where we have a few condo's which provide us with a rental income, they are all small units (relatively speaking, 40 - 55 SqM) and are rented out to students and local workers. We always buy off plan, always pay the initial deposit in cash and fix a repayment percentage at 0% over 3 years with a final payment.

 

With the smaller units it's easy to do this due to the amount available, but at the high end there is little or no flexibility unless you get in really early, i.e 3 years before the project is due to be finished.

 

I would imagine since the russians stopped coming and buying up condo's due to the rouble dropping in value since 2013 there must be more around.

 

 

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm not sure what percentage of condos the Russians bought, and all I can look at is the asking prices. I guess the only way I'll find out for sure is to make some offers when I get back there. They say many condos sell for 20-30% below the asking price.

[cbrib 354]

When i was doing real estate here a few years ago the market, especially condos, were very over built and over priced. IMHO nothing has really changed. They are a few good opportunities out there where developers are offering 7% to 10% guaranteed return for a few years.

 

Where are you looking to buy? If you are interested in the Pratumnak area a long time friend of mine is a developer and offering deals on both his completed building and the one he is building now. I could get you in touch with him. BTW i am not in real estate anymore and have no financial interest in this.

[js007 795]

When i was doing real estate here a few years ago the market, especially condos, were very over built and over priced. IMHO nothing has really changed. They are a few good opportunities out there where developers are offering 7% to 10% guaranteed return for a few years.

 

Where are you looking to buy? If you are interested in the Pratumnak area a long time friend of mine is a developer and offering deals on both his completed building and the one he is building now. I could get you in touch with him. BTW i am not in real estate anymore and have no financial interest in this.

 

 

I've been looking at the Wongamat area the last few days, although I've never been there. There seem to be some nice ocean front properties there. I guess I'm thinking that they aren't making any more ocean front land, so that might help sustain the value of anything I bought. Raimon Land has a few properties there, and they seem reputable. In any event, thanks for the offer. I guess I'll finally be back in Thailand in three or four months, so I'll be able to look around in person then. I'm also thinking about Bangkok and Phuket. I like to travel, so any condo I buy will probably only be occupied part of the time. I guess my main concern is that if I buy something, the value doesn't drop too much, if at all.

[Gary 4,118]

My advise is to NOT buy a shoe box. Make sure it has a separate bedroom. If you ever have a room mate she will want to watch Thai TV and you will want English TV. My condo is 60 square meters with a large bedroom. I have a TV in the bedroom, a computer desk and a desk top computer. It is also good to have plenty of built in storage. If you live there, you will also want a washing machine and a patio big enough for drying your clothes.

 

ADDED - Make sure the electricity is billed directly from the electric company and be careful with the maintenance fees. Some management companies are a rip off. My condo association is made up of owners and the fee is 10 baht per square meter. A new condo will likely be higher than that but not some crazy figure. A gated complex with good security is also good.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Gary

[js007 795]

My advise is to NOT buy a shoe box. Make sure it has a separate bedroom. If you ever have a room mate she will want to watch Thai TV and you will want English TV. My condo is 60 square meters with a large bedroom. I have a TV in the bedroom, a computer desk and a desk top computer. It is also good to have plenty of built in storage. If you live there, you will also want a washing machine and a patio big enough for drying your clothes.

 

ADDED - Make sure the electricity is billed directly from the electric company and be careful with the maintenance fees. Some management companies are a rip off. My condo association is made up of owners and the fee is 10 baht per square meter. A new condo will likely be higher than that but not some crazy figure. A gated complex with good security is also good.

 

 

Sure, all things being equal, a 60 sq. meter condo would be better than a 32 sq. meter condo. They actually sell small condos for a lot of money, though. It seems crazy. Anyway, on a sq. meeter basis, I'd be paying that much more for a bigger one. The whole real estate thing in Asia is hard to understand, for me. People pay a million dollars or more for a little shoebox in some places. Thailand is actually one of the less expensive places to buy.

[jacko 8,813]

Just looking over some old real estate threads. Five or six years ago, I was of the opinion the market was overbuilt and a crash would come if I waited long enough. Well, here it is and it's 2018 and prices keep going up, or so it seems. I'd like to buy something, but I'm trying to not be stupid about it. A condo in Pattaya, Bangkok, or Phuket. Built buy a reputable quality company. But I'd rather not pay more than 6 million baht. And I'd rather not pay that for 30 sq. meters.

The construction seems to have slowed down, my reason for thinking this is simplistic, all the floor space in the Malls isn't taken up by people hawking condos as it was a few years back! Whether Pattaya property will pick up in price is hard to say, the place does keep expanding and the Chinese rush is on the cards. But when I take a serious look at Pattaya and it's infrastructure and the downright decrepit appearance of most of it's streets and transport limitations I wonder why!

 

If it is a matter of 'somewhere to live', renting should be considered. Rents are cheap relative to new condo prices. The old adage about you paying someone else's mortgage really doesn't apply if you don't expect to live a lot longer. ie an older retired person could rent for 20 years for the lump sum he pays out to buy.... leaving a Thai condo to a distant USA relative isn't as good as the cash!

Renting may also be more attractive to the renter in the future with tighter controls and contracts.

 

New laws provide greater protection for people who rent property in Thailand.

 

Property News

Edited February 27, 2018 by jacko

[Gary 4,118]

I have always considered paying rent as throwing your money down the toilet. As far as a condo, I hate high rises. Long dark narrow hallways and worries about fires was always on my mind. It took me a while to find a place that suited me but I did find what I wanted. the buildings where I bought are five stories high and are built in a rectangle open in the center with trees and plants in that open area.

 

I also have no problem buying second hand. Buying off plan may be good but you risk a lot of hassle and delays. That's IF the project does get finished, some don't. I actually like second hand because you can see exactly what you are getting. The key unlocks the door, the lights turn on and the toilet flushes. The grounds should be clean and neat and the swimming pools pristine.

[js007 795]

Renting does make perfect sense in many ways. The cost is reasonable and you maintain your flexibility. I may well come to my senses and decide that's the way to go, as I'm 66 years old. I feel good, but what about 10 years from now?

[pinoydave 210]

Renting gives you flexibility to move around..... do you really want to spend all your retirement in one town..... I'd fancy six months in Cambodia ..... would I do that if I'd bought somewhere.... maybe not!!

[js007 795]

Renting gives you flexibility to move around..... do you really want to spend all your retirement in one town..... I'd fancy six months in Cambodia ..... would I do that if I'd bought somewhere.... maybe not!!

 

 

The monthly overhead on a condo you own usually isn't too much, right? The HOA fee and maybe a small water bill and small electric bill. So I wouldn't let that stop me from traveling around. Just lock the door and leave.

[jacko 8,813]

 

 

The monthly overhead on a condo you own usually isn't too much, right? The HOA fee and maybe a small water bill and small electric bill. So I wouldn't let that stop me from traveling around. Just lock the door and leave.

True, I know people who own several condos and having them empty doesn't seem to faze them.

The expenses are peanuts with no property taxes to worry over.

[BigusDicus 9,873]

Just looking over some old real estate threads. Five or six years ago, I was of the opinion the market was overbuilt and a crash would come if I waited long enough. Well, here it is and it's 2018 and prices keep going up, or so it seems. I'd like to buy something, but I'm trying to not be stupid about it. A condo in Pattaya, Bangkok, or Phuket. Built buy a reputable quality company. But I'd rather not pay more than 6 million baht. And I'd rather not pay that for 30 sq. meters.

 

JS, might make sense to rent for a few months in each location to decide which you like best before purchase.

[Idefix 2,275]

do you really want to spend all your retirement in one town..... I'd fancy six months in Cambodia ..... would I do that if I'd bought somewhere.... maybe not!!

And what about all your stuff? Do you really want to move everything every 6 months?

I would prefer a permanent base where most of my stuff always stay.

Important also to have a real official permanent address IMHO.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Idefix

[Skate 9]

I will throw in my 2 cents. Since this tread has been going since 2013 my question would be have rents increased in Pattaya since 2013 ? What is your ROI ? Just net growth if any growth at all with the over building I bet

 

 

My suggestion would be to invest it your home country and use the profits to pay your rent here. Ask yourself. What were the rents in you hone in 2013 and the same in Pattaya.

 

In my counry rents are going up 3000 bt a year for the last 5 years. I dont think you"ll get that here.

 

Good luck with your investing.

[js007 795]

I will throw in my 2 cents. Since this tread has been going since 2013 my question would be have rents increased in Pattaya since 2013 ? What is your ROI ? Just net growth if any growth at all with the over building I bet

 

 

My suggestion would be to invest it your home country and use the profits to pay your rent here. Ask yourself. What were the rents in you hone in 2013 and the same in Pattaya.

 

In my counry rents are going up 3000 bt a year for the last 5 years. I dont think you"ll get that here.

 

Good luck with your investing.

 

 

Yes, I could buy a house in my home country and then turn it over to a real estate agency to rent. The rents I'd collect would easily pay my rent in Thailand and I'd still own property in the USA in the event I ever wanted to return. Of course, tenants aren't always good tenants and there's no guarantee whether the property would always stay rented. And there would be property taxes, maintenance, the fee to the real estate agent, etc. Alternatively, I could just invest some more money in some dividend paying stocks. The dividends on those would go a long way towards paying rent in Thailand. But the problem with that is that we currently have a stock market bubble and the central banks have flooded the world with money. Inflation may be returning. A 4%-5% dividend wouldn't seem so hot anymore if the stocks dropped because of a rise in interest rates. It's hard to know what to do.

[Gary 4,118]

 

 

Yes, I could buy a house in my home country and then turn it over to a real estate agency to rent. The rents I'd collect would easily pay my rent in Thailand and I'd still own property in the USA in the event I ever wanted to return. Of course, tenants aren't always good tenants and there's no guarantee whether the property would always stay rented. And there would be property taxes, maintenance, the fee to the real estate agent, etc. Alternatively, I could just invest some more money in some dividend paying stocks. The dividends on those would go a long way towards paying rent in Thailand. But the problem with that is that we currently have a stock market bubble and the central banks have flooded the world with money. Inflation may be returning. A 4%-5% dividend wouldn't seem so hot anymore if the stocks dropped because of a rise in interest rates. It's hard to know what to do.

 

Years ago I owned a Florida condo. When I moved over here, I had it rented out. To make a long story short, that was the worst thing I could have done. There are many deadbeats and even decent renters who pay the rent often do not take care of the property. In the US, try getting a deadbeat renter out of your property. I eventually sold the then distressed condo and took a beating. Fortunately it was paid for and I felt good getting rid of the headache even after losing money.

[atlas2 4,329]

As far as condo availability goes.... I see many empty.......many being built .....

Theres a new one just staring on Jomtien Beach next to the Russian night market..... gonna be 59 floors!!!!!!

[js007 795]

As far as condo availability goes.... I see many empty.......many being built .....

Theres a new one just staring on Jomtien Beach next to the Russian night market..... gonna be 59 floors!!!!!!

 

 

Some of the condos on jomtien Beach look nice, from what I can see online. Reflection, for example. Killer views from many of the condos. But there are several along that street. Who's buying all those? I've also been looking in Bangkok. Maybe those would be easier to sell, eventually?

[mrlasvegas 124]

My personal opinion is to invest in some place like Phuket or Samui. Better odds of resale as a vacation place. Also caters to a higher end group.

[9cisco999 107]

My advise is to NOT buy a shoe box. Make sure it has a separate bedroom. If you ever have a room mate she will want to watch Thai TV and you will want English TV. My condo is 60 square meters with a large bedroom. I have a TV in the bedroom, a computer desk and a desk top computer. It is also good to have plenty of built in storage. If you live there, you will also want a washing machine and a patio big enough for drying your clothes.

 

ADDED - Make sure the electricity is billed directly from the electric company and be careful with the maintenance fees. Some management companies are a rip off. My condo association is made up of owners and the fee is 10 baht per square meter. A new condo will likely be higher than that but not some crazy figure. A gated complex with good security is also good.

 

 

That's good advice, Gary. I've seen some tiny places, both condos as well as hotel rooms.

 

My rule of thumb is to think about how I'd feel if for whatever reason I got stuck in the room/condo for a few days. A shoe box just doesn't cut it for me.

 

Good management is critical.

 

In the USA before I ever bought a place I knocked on a few nearby doors and simply asked the occupants to give their opinion of the place. That saved my butt once after I was considering buying a nice building in a high crime area I knew nothing about.

[Gary 4,118]

The bottom line is that I don't think a condo is a wise investment. It is a good investment if you plan on living there. My condo is like a security blanket, I will always have a roof over my head and a place to go. The maintenance charge is 10 baht per square meter or 600 baht a month for mine. Electric and water are very small costs since I'm seldom there. I did have to spend some money the last few trips. A new desktop computer and new TV plus a new air conditioner for the bedroom. I also replaced the old refrigerator. The old one worked OK but defrosting it was a pain.

 

The main thing is to choose carefully. You should really like the location and the unit. If you have any doubts, you should keep looking. You'll know when you find the right one. Yes, my complex has several swimming pools, an exercise room and a tennis court. I use the pool once in a while but have never used the tennis court or the exercise room. There is a 7-11 at the front of the complex that is handy and a small restaurant in the complex directly across the street from my condo. Some guys pay a huge premium for an ocean view but regardless of the view, you will eventually get tired of it. I would pay more for a larger more comfortable unit. Saving money is a poor tactic when looking for a place to live. I did seriously look at an ocean view unit but was put off by all the metal things being corroded and rusty vehicles. Salt air is hard on many things especially electronics.

[js007 795]

My personal opinion is to invest in some place like Phuket or Samui. Better odds of resale as a vacation place. Also caters to a higher end group.

 

 

Phuket is nice, although I know next to nothing about Samui. And I have read some of the horror stories about foreigners and property ownership in Phuket. So, even if that's "the place" to be, I'd probably only rent down there. And that's unfortunate.