Explaining the World Cup (and FIFA) to Americans

[jacko 8,822]

If you want to see the dark side of football…….the conning, the intimidating of referees, the time wasting and one of the finest dives ever in a world cup final from the current USA manager (worth a look on its own that)…….and listen to the pissed-off condemning English commentary……..Here it is. Oh and an incongruous moment I'd forgotten about, (given that it was one of the worst WC finals ever) at the very end.

 

Edit: Some of the yellow cards were awarded for the hair-cuts.

 

 

 

I'm thinking it won't do any harm to emphasise the moment at the end.

 

It was an award given to Gary Lineker. Not because he was, (and still is), the only Englishman to receive the Golden Boot at a World Cup Finals. Nor because he is the second highest England goal scorer of all time. But because in a stunning career spanning 15 years at the highest level in England, Spain and Japan he was NEVER booked once.

 

i doubt given today's game that will ever happen again.

 

When I first saw the shorts atlas2, I thought they were all Russians.

 

And as to the last moment, what was the message...Play fair and be losers?

Edited June 17, 2014 by jacko

[atlas2 4,329]

I think its good to have heroes that achieve as much as Lineker and who try to do so without cheating. I'm proud of him.

 

Hobby horse alert….

 

Painful as it was I'd honestly rather we lost a World Cup game to a, 'hand of God' goal than that we won a game that way. It annoys me that over the years Maradona has remained unrepentant and his first goal is applauded or laughed off in many parts of the world, not just the places with grudges against England.

 

Last World Cup I think Suarez pushed a shot heading for his goal away with his hand. Suarez was booked but the other team missed the penalty and Uruguay won the game. A complete injustice. If we lose in similar circumstances on Thursday we'll be out but we can still be proud of ourselves.

 

 

'Play fair and be losers'?

 

Yes……or why play sport?

'

Edited June 17, 2014 by atlas2

[Gonzo 419]

If you want to see the dark side of football…….the conning, the intimidating of referees, the time wasting and one of the finest dives ever in a world cup final from the current USA manager (worth a look on its own that)…….and listen to the pissed-off condemning English commentary……..Here it is. Oh and an incongruous moment I'd forgotten about, (given that it was one of the worst WC finals ever) at the very end.

 

Edit: Some of the yellow cards were awarded for the hair-cuts.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm thinking it won't do any harm to emphasise the moment at the end.

 

It was an award given to Gary Lineker. Not because he was, (and still is), the only Englishman to receive the Golden Boot at a World Cup Finals. Nor because he is the second highest England goal scorer of all time. But because in a stunning career spanning 15 years at the highest level in England, Spain and Japan he was NEVER booked once.

 

i doubt given today's game that will ever happen again.

atlas2 mate, I had my first good sleep for a few days and a mate woke me a couple of minutes ago, to remind me to watch the Belgium - Algeria game. I told him early this afternoon I was only interested in the Mexico-Brazil game starting at 2AM. I could have done with a bit more sleep, but never mind.

 

I watched your video clip about the Germany- Argentina final and it made me feel a bit depressed. In 1990 I was still relatively young and saw the final with different eyes. I was then jubilant about (West) Germany winning the WC. I still think Klinsmann was a great player and later a great coach for Germany and now for the USA.

 

Algeria just scored a goal from a penalty, so I better watch the game.

[Gonzo 419]

In defence of Jürgen Klinsmann, just showing what a great player he was.

 

[atlas2 4,329]

Yes he was a very good player……. But if you do a search for Klinsmann you very quickly come to 'The Klinsmann Dive' I prefer Persie'ing the new craze sweeping Holland. I'll go and find a link.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27885833

Edited June 18, 2014 by atlas2

[Gonzo 419]

Yes he was a very good player……. But if you do a search for Klinsmann you very quickly come to 'The Klinsmann Dive' I prefer Persie'ing the new craze sweeping Holland. I'll go and find a link.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27885833

I read the Sydney Morning Herald online edition on a daily basis. There has been a lot of talk about the world cup lately. In years gone by “soccer” was considered as a minor sport only, played by immigrants. All the Australian papers would rave on about was Rugby League, Rugby Union and Australian Rules football.

 

In this morning’s edition the SMH wrote about the world cup mostly. The funniest part was when they spoke about American football and “proper” football “. It just about made my day. It is quite obvious that the media in all countries around the globe now seem to recognise that “proper football” is the most powerful and most popular sport ever. Trying to ignore that fact would send a lot of the media empires bankrupt.

 

Klinsmann was all right, but my German all-time favourites are Franz Beckenbauer, Gerd Müller, Lothar Matthäus, Uwe Seeler, the complete team from the 1954 World Cup and probably hundreds of other players as well. Cheers

[Evil Penevil 7,628]

Some good jokes on late night TV about the US win over Ghana. One talk show host said it was an important win because now 10% of all Americans can locate Ghana on a map. Another said the US team celebrated the win in traditional US soccer fashion - a couple of the players' moms loaded up the team members in SUVs and drove them to the nearest Pizza Hut for a meal .

 

Evil

[atlas2 4,329]

Some good jokes on late night TV about the US win over Ghana. One talk show host said it was an important win because now 10% of all Americans can locate Ghana on a map. Another said the US team celebrated the win in traditional US soccer fashion - a couple of the players' moms loaded up the team members in SUVs and drove them to the nearest Pizza Hut for a meal .

 

Evil

 

 

I feel sorry for your footballers…….

[MM 6,562]

The best thing for football in America would be for the USA to make good progress in the WC. Americans lose interest in sports they're not strong in..luckily, the USA team has enough support to field a decent bunch with a good coach.

 

Getting to quarterfinals or better would be huge...all those soccer moms would be vindicated after all these years.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

I had a chat with an Italian gentleman this morning who is convinced all pro sport is fixed, and run by the Mafia. One knows my opinion of Howard Webb by now.

[Gonzo 419]

Hi,

 

I had a chat with an Italian gentleman this morning who is convinced all pro sport is fixed, and run by the Mafia. One knows my opinion of Howard Webb by now.

The Italian gentleman was talking about his own country.and I am nearly certain your Chris Froome will win the Tour de France without cheating, just like our Cadel Evans did in 2011.

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

I had a chat with an Italian gentleman this morning who is convinced all pro sport is fixed, and run by the Mafia. One knows my opinion of Howard Webb by now.

Hi,

 

Right on cue wac.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10918321/Football-match-fixing-deal-casts-cloud-over-World-Cup.html

 

Football match-fixing: Ghana deal casts cloud over World Cup finals in Brazil

 

Exclusive: undercover investigation by The Telegraph and Channel Four’s Dispatches programme finds that the President of Ghana’s Football Association agreed for the team to play in international matches that others were prepared to rig

Edited June 23, 2014 by wacmedia

[MM 6,562]

Hi,

 

Right on cue wac.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10918321/Football-match-fixing-deal-casts-cloud-over-World-Cup.html

 

Football match-fixing: Ghana deal casts cloud over World Cup finals in Brazil

 

Exclusive: undercover investigation by The Telegraph and Channel Four’s Dispatches programme finds that the President of Ghana’s Football Association agreed for the team to play in international matches that others were prepared to rig

 

Well, it could happen without any financial manipulations too...

 

U.S. and Germany Both Advance with World Cup Draw, so Let the Conspiracy Begin

 

By Dan Levy, National Lead Writer

 

Jun 23, 2014

 

 

 

 

Martin Rose/Getty Images

 

 

 

"Hello, is Jogi there? It's Jurgen. I'd like to see if he wants to go to the park to kick the ball around for a bit…about 90 minutes or so…tell him there's no need to bring a goal. We won't be trying to score today."

When the World Cup groups were announced and the United States was placed with Ghana, Portugal and Germany, the immediate thought in trying to determine the best way out of the alleged Group of Death was for the U.S. to beat World Cup rival Ghana, earn a a draw against Portugal and hope that those results were enough to get out of the group stage without needing a result against Germany.

What many—myself included—joked about at the time was that if the United States and Germany both found themselves needing a point to advance after two matches, nothing would be better than a friendly kick in the park.

Ninety minutes, no goals. If there was ever a scenario for which a conspiracy theory could be made, it would have to be this.

The last game of the group stage is upon us and both U.S.A. and Germany need one point to advance, with Jurgen Klinsmann—one of the best Germany players in World Cup history—coaching the United States and Joachim Low—Klinsmann's former understudy as manager of the German national team—in charge of the opponents.

 

 

 

Ben Margot/Associated Press

 

 

Let's not forget that with Klinsmann's appointment with the USMNT has come a plethora of German-American players like Jermaine Jones, Fabian Johnson, John Brooks, Timmy Chandler and Julian Green. The connections between these two teams are incredible.

Sure, a case can be made that all five players—and certainly both coaches—want to beat the other side, win the group and take pride in their efforts in Brazil. Yes, that idea does seem nice. However, so does guaranteeing a spot in the final 16, and now that we're at this point with one match to play, the conspiracy question has to be raised.

And raised it was, to both coaches, by pundits around the world. Following the match against Portugal, Klinsmann was asked by a journalist in his post-match press conference, shown on ESPN2, if we should expect to see "another Gijon."

 

I don't think we are made for draws, really, unless it happens like it did [against Portugal] with two late goals, last second. I think both teams go into this game and they want to win the group, so we want to go into this game, recover fast and go at Germany and get three points.

 

Gijon, for those unfamiliar with World Cup conspiracies of a generation long since past, was the city in Spain that hosted the 1982 World Cup match between West Germany and Austria, where both teams knew a low-scoring victory for the Germans would ensure their advancement to the knockout stage over Algeria. After scoring early on to secure the lead that would get them out of the group, the Germans quite obviously took their foot off the proverbial gas and both teams progressed to the next round.

 

 

 

 

Would you be okay with the U.S. advancing on a handshake deal?

 

 

No. It's un-American to advance that way.Yes. The goal is to advance...by any means necessary.SUBMIT VOTE vote to see results[/size]

 

 

 

 

The match was so controversial that it led to FIFA deciding that the final round of group stage matches in future World Cups would be played simultaneously so that no team could be given the advantage of knowing what the other group opponents had already done.

It was a black eye for FIFA, surely, but darn it if something similar is not perfectly set up to happen again.

In this case, the timing of the other group match with Ghana and Portugal is inconsequential, as a draw guarantees that both the U.S. and Germany would advance.

Is either manager really that interested in knocking out the other, or does the idea of a draw benefit both too much not to consider some kind of deal?

Low was asked about his relationship with Klinsmann after Germany's draw with Ghana on Saturday—and before the U.S. drew with Portugal—and he indicated that they have made no contact with each other during the tournament. From Ghanaweb.com:

 

At a post-match press conference in Fortaleza on Saturday, the question was put to the German coach as to his relationship with the USA coach, Jurgen Klinsmann, and his answer was instructive: 'My relationship with Jurgen is brilliant, but we have not had any frequent contacts during this tournament and I believe it will stay that way till after the tournament.'

 

That wasn't exactly a firm rebuke of any conspiracy concerns, was it?

People may be sick of hearing about this conspiracy theory already, and part of even addressing it is nothing more than a distraction from the terrible ending to the Portugal match for the United States, who must surely feel that they should already be through to the knockout stage of the tournament. Plus, it's fun to talk about conspiracies, so perhaps this is nothing more than that.

Or perhaps it's nothing more than wishful thinking, knowing that the goal of this World Cup run for Klinsmann was to get out of the group and advance to the knockout stage, something that is guaranteed with one point against Germany.

 

 

 

Frank Augstein/Associated Press

 

 

Before the tournament, advancing out of the group seemed unlikely to many. Failure to advance at this point would be a colossal disappointment.

If the United States could avoid that by working out a deal with Germany, should they? Would fans be okay with making a treaty with the Germans if it ensured getting out of the group? Can you even believe we are talking about this at the World Cup?

The answer to the last one is yes, of course. Everyone is talking about this. In the ESPN post-match show on Sunday, Mike Tirico asked if he could "shoot the elephant in the room" before bringing up the theory, stating it's the story we will all be covering for the next four days (if you're sick of it now, just avoid pre-match coverage altogether this week).

This is a real thing, whether it happens or not.

 

 

 

Kevin C. Cox/Getty Images

 

 

In answering the question, Alexi Lalas replied: "Why would Jogi Low want to do that?" But it's Klinsmann he should be wondering about, not the German manager. (What I mean is…the German manager who manages Germany, not the German manager who manages the Americans, many of whom are also part German.)

Anyway, why wouldn't Low want to do it? A loss and, well, anything can happen in the other match. Ghana could win 4-0 and Germany could suddenly be out of the tournament.

A draw is the same to Germany as a win. Low's team is ahead on goal differential, so a draw gives Germany the group.

Finishing top in Group G could mean facing Algeria or Russia in the first knockout game, while finishing second sets up a bracket that will almost certainly feature matches against Belgium and, if still alive, Argentina (the first-place team will probably get France in the quarterfinals, which may be a tougher out than Argentina, to be fair).

This tournament has been pretty wacky, but Low has to want to win the group to avoid the talent-laden European neighbors to the west in the round of 16. But still, how much will it be worth to him—or Klinsmann—to try and go for the victory if a draw is enough to advance?

ESPN's Steve McManaman had the most logical response to the conspiracy question (via ESPN):

 

The one thing I will say is that of course we think that will not exist and both teams will go for a win, but…in the course of play if it just gets to 75 or 80 minutes and it's 0-0 or 1-1 and both teams think they don't want to take any chances, of course it's going to be in their minds, both will go through.

 

The panel seemed to agree with that logic, as well as Kasey Keller's response suggesting that players will think to protect first and avoid an overlapping run if it exposes their team at the back late in the match. There is no incentive in trying to win if it causes your team to lose, after all.

"It’s a conversation people have," Tirico interjected. "Nobody thinks that Jurgen's texting Jogi tonight saying 'let's fire up a draw here guys,' you know?"

"Do you know something we don't?" Macca joked.

Does someone?

It's not like FIFA isn't full of back room deals and conspiracies already. Some people think this entire World Cup was bought and paid for months ago and that who advances from the group stage doesn't matter at all as long as Brazil gets to the World Cup final. That wouldn't make a deal between the Americans and Germans right, but it's not as appalling when taking into consideration the influences at play in and around FIFA.

 

And yet, it's un-American to think our team wouldn't go out on any field and give its best effort, no matter what the circumstances. So, no, there probably won't be any late-night texting between pals.

And, frankly, there doesn't have to be. The United States is in very good shape to advance, despite being shell-shocked after a late draw with Portugal. A victory and the USMNT win the Group of Death; a draw sees them through to the knockout stages for the second World Cup in a row.

 

A loss does create some worry, as head-to-head results are the third tiebreaker if teams are even on points, after goal differential and total goals scored. A one-goal loss to Germany would put the U.S. even on goal differential, which would mean a two-goal victory for Ghana over Portugal would see the Black Stars advance over the United States.

 

 

Kevin C. Cox/Getty Images

 

Portugal needs to make up five goals on the United States, meaning a 2-0 loss to Germany and a 3-0 Portugal win over Ghana would be the minimum Portugal needs in order to advance. A 3-0 U.S. loss to Germany and a 2-0 Portugal win, for comparison, would put both teams at four points with a minus-two goal differential and tied on goals scored. In that scenario, FIFA would draw lots.

Talk about a conspiracy theory!

In the end, the U.S. advances if either match ends in a draw, and with both Ghana and Portugal having everything to play for, that may help the United States more than whatever happens against Germany.

As much as I called this scenario before the tournament began—and as much as I love a good conspiracy—there will be no handshake deals between Klinsmann and Low before the match.

No matter what we conspiracy theorists think, the U.S. vs. Germany will be more than just a lazy kick in the park. Probably...

 

[sinbinjack 252]

The one thing I cannot ever understand about World Cup or soccer in general is the fascination with it in Latin America. A culture that is so based on macho goes crazy for the most feminine sport imaginable. While American style football at least requires some intense physical conditioning, as long as you can run a bit in soccer you are in. Soccer players are frail metrosexual types. American football players, even the gay ones, are tough as nails with many built like a freight train.

I am not personally all that football crazy as I was a Hockey player, but football played by professional players is a far cry from the football you played as a kid. The intensity of the game is huge and requires much more fitness than American football which only requires effort in 30 second rushes whilst a footballer at the top of his game will run 12-14 Kilometres in an hour and a half which is much farther than any American Footballer ever runs in a month of games. If you want to compare sports then compare like with like and that would mean comparing grid iron to Rugby and rugby is faster meaner and has almost no protective gear at all. The problem is that as rugby players don't play grid iron we will never see which is truly better but I for one will believe that Rugby is by far the harder sport for men and some of those men are gay , so get over it or get trampled in the ruck.

[atlas2 4,329]

I've been thinking about this…….. My main adult sport was squash. It calls for very high levels of fitness to play it well. Even decent club players have to maintain a good level of fitness to be able to compete. I've seen and been in matches where one player has been totally out-classed and made to look like a beginner in the first couple of games only to be drawn back by his opponents superior fitness and gradually worn down to near collapse like hyenas worrying a zebra before they strike.

 

It would be interesting to compare the fitness levels between the top level badminton and squash, I'm not sure which sport is the most demanding.

 

As Sinbinjack says American football and football are not really suitable for comparison. In fact, that the sports share the same name is laughable. All we can be assured of is that an American footballer will be at the very peak of his, sport's specific fitness. I'm pretty sure if the pool of athletes playing grid-iron had instead grown up playing rugby the USA would dominate and not NZ.

 

As it is, I'd like to suggest that the toughest and most demanding team sport is Rugby league. It calls for strength and speed from all positions. It's non-stop and tests all aspects of fitness.

 

That is unless you can think of another sport I've missed.

Edited June 24, 2014 by atlas2

[brotherbuzz 3,206]

That is unless you can think of another sport I've missed.

Not qualified to say whether it's more physically demanding, but since we tend to only look at the sports where we run and/or run into each other, I thought I'd toss Water Polo out there for discussion. Our high school team swam twice a day, did a ton of running and also various weight training. Lord knows what they do at the highest level. Anyway, racing back and forth, treading water, jockeying for position etc. etc. has gotta be pretty darned demanding.

[atlas2 4,329]

I hadn't considered water polo even though I've played it…..as a guest…..of a London based team on two of their friendly tours of Malta in the 70s. The Maltese are mad about polo and rope off 'pitches' in the sea. I was a decent swimmer but I was knackered in 5 mins …...as well as crap. I think they threw me in just to make that point.

 

One of their training routines I witnessed was to tread water chest high across a pool carrying a chair above their heads. Most of the players I know had to have their hips done in their early 50s or they struggle-on with buggar'd-up knees. It's pretty violent too.

 

Another practice session was to line up opposite an opponent and try to wrestle him under. Whittling it down to a final two to decide who got the Incredible Hulk Award that night.

 

I agree…..My mate, who was Best man at both my weddings was fit as a butcher's dog in those days…….

 

I realize it's a silly question to ask 'who's the fittest?' or what is the most demanding team game.

Edited June 24, 2014 by atlas2

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

 

Tennis looks a tough sport to me, and you are on your own. From a personal point of view that would not bother me, boxing would be the sport that I'd worry about, as as well as being fit one has to put up with being assaulted on a regular basis. Jockeys are known for being tough guys as well.

[jacko 8,822]

I hadn't considered water polo even though I've played it…..as a guest…..of a London based team on two of their friendly tours of Malta in the 70s. The Maltese are mad about polo and rope off 'pitches' in the sea. I was a decent swimmer but I

I think it is likely more tiring for the horses.

[brotherbuzz 3,206]

I thought about Boxing too. Definitely need to be in very good shape and high on punishment. But, I'd put MMA above Boxing in both departments

[short 215]

Could someone explain "two girls one cup" in the original video? apology is someone already has.

[Evil Penevil 7,628]

Could someone explain "two girls one cup" in the original video? apology is someone already has.

 

"2 girls 1 cup" is the name used on YouTube for a Brazilian scat fetish film called Hungry Bitches. Two girls sh*t into one cup, then apparently eat it and puke into each others' mouths. A one-minute trailer for the film went viral, then a lot of YouTubers began posting videos of the horrified reactions of people watching either the trailer or the actual film.

 

In the video posted by MM in the OP, the commentator is saying reactions to seeing the inner workings of FIFA would be the same as the reactions to "2 girls 1 cup."

 

Evil

 

EDIT IN: Here's a compilation of reaction videos:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQRoCcfNnVE

Edited June 25, 2014 by Evil Penevil

[atlas2 4,329]

 

"2 girls 1 cup" is the name used on YouTube for a Brazilian scat fetish film called Hungry Bitches. Two girls sh*t into one cup, then apparently eat it and puke into each others' mouths. A one-minute trailer for the film went viral, then a lot of YouTubers began posting videos of the horrified reactions of people watching either the trailer or the actual film.

 

In the video posted by MM in the OP, the commentator is saying reactions to seeing the inner workings of FIFA would be the same as the reactions to "2 girls 1 cup."

 

Evil

 

EDIT IN: Here's a compilation of reaction videos:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQRoCcfNnVE

 

 

Sometimes ignorance is bliss…..

[atlas2 4,329]

After this World Cup I think Americans should explain football to the English, Italians, Spanish and Portuguese……..

[MM 6,562]

After this World Cup I think Americans should explain football to the English, Italians, Spanish and Portuguese……..

Haha. We're not gloating...I hope. The USA team has done pretty well, amazingly well against the powerhouse of Portugal..managed to contain Ronaldo for 94 minutes, which is no small feat.

 

I want to include something I saw today at Family Mart...just shows where the money was on the English chances in the WC...not gloating or rubbing it in...it's a surprise to most that England didn't advance.

 

Incidentally, you English are quite hard on your national team and its manager. We USA fans would just shrug it off and say, well, that's what we pretty much expected anyway