Cleaning up Pattaya...eliminate guesthouses

[MM 6,562]

The registered hotels want to eliminate the guesthouses to discourage cheapo travellers coming to Pattaya and lowering the "quality" of the city's tourists.

 

Obviously, they have the money and the clout to be listened to, and their profits go to the elites who have the influence and power in this economy and government.

 

Does this mean a serious crackdown on unregistered accommodations will be the next big push to clean up Pattaya?

 

I know that many of you come here and stay in these places. How do you feel knowing you aren't wanted, that you're considered a "low quality tourist" because you choose to stay in such places?

 

Would you come here if you only had the big chain hotels to stay at?

 

 

It is proving hard to shift Pattaya's image to a quality destination despite the government's crackdown on certain complaints and illegal businesses in the popular resort town, say hotel and tourism leaders.

The main problem for hotel operators is a glut of non-registered hotels and illegal businesses still offering cheap products and services to low-quality tourists, while big spenders prefer other destinations like Phuket, Koh Samui and Hua Hin.

The Thai Hotel Association (THA) and hotel operators have expressed concerns about the long-term image of Pattaya -- the most popular tourist destination on the Eastern Seaboard -- acknowledging the military government has attempted to crack down on negative images such as beach umbrellas, mundane activities and tourism scams.

However, they believe limiting these negative images would take time because of poor law enforcement and political power shifts on both the local and national level.

Supawan Tanomkieatipume, president of the THA, said rebuilding Pattaya's image from a "sin city" to a destination for everyone could take up to five years and requires determined law enforcement.

"Actually, Pattaya has long been a draw for many types of tourists, ranging from sex to family trips to business meetings, so it is really difficult to wipe out the inappropriate activities in a short period of time," Ms Supawan said.

The THA reported that Pattaya is the second-most popular tourist destination after Bangkok, beating Phuket in terms of arrivals. It is third for tourist income after Bangkok and Phuket because of lower average spending.

More than 2,100 buildings provide accommodation in the Pattaya market, representing 139,000 rooms. Of the figure, only 270 operators with a total of 40,000 rooms have registered as hotels.

In recent years more local and international chains entered the market including Hilton, Holiday Inn, InterContinental and Movenpick.

The peak year for Pattaya's tourist arrivals was 2013 with 12 million foreigners. Arrivals dropped below 10 million last year, but is expected to rebound this year thanks to tourists from Russia, India, Europe and South Korea. The Chinese have been the largest source market for a few years.

Sanphet Suphabuansathien, THA's eastern region president, said some negative aspects of Pattaya have been resolved in the last few years since central officials cracked down on pornography and illegal operators. Yet many issues still need to be improved, he said.

"Hotel and tourism operators in Pattaya are teaming up to promote new activities to overseas markets. We are offering sporting events, golf, theme parks and theatres. Longer stays and retired visitors are our main targets this year," Mr Sanphet said.

Chatchawal Supachayanont, former general manager at Dusit Thani Pattaya who serves as a board member for the THA eastern chapter, said Pattaya has a way of serving all types, from backpackers to families to business travellers. With a variety of tourism products and services, local and foreign visitors can enjoy their holidays here year-round, from bargain prices to costly packages, he said.

"It's really hard to shift to serve only the high-end market, clearing out all the cheap products from the market. Yes, Phuket, Koh Samui and Hua Hin can draw high-spenders and long-stay guests. Pattaya's mix of market segments took years to develop," Mr Chatchawal said.

He believes the expansion of U-tapao airport and Laem Chabang deep-sea port as well as the construction of a high-speed train project may not help draw the hordes of quality visitors the proponents envision because they may prefer to spend their holidays in other cities, avoiding the distractions.

from http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/news/1249634/industry-new-image-for-pattaya-a-big-ask

[Idefix 2,275]

Hi MM.

Your title seems wrong to me. The article is about illegal businesses, not guesthouses.

 

The problem in Thailand are the thousand of "hotels" or guesthouses-too-big-to-be-legally-a-guesthouse. They need to register and have an hotel license, but so many don't have, and it was not really a problem (no control) until recently.

They already targeted several big illegal hotels in Pattaya last year, and Google will show you it happen everywhere in Thailand.

See http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/advanced/1154636/guesthouse-hotel-crackdown-no-more-mai-pen-rai

 

A problem you get in many sectors, and I understand the reaction of big companies who have to pay licenses and respect strict rules (with costs) and have this growing illegal concurrence.

 

BTW many still cheap legal hotels in Pattaya IMHO

 

Edit: For owners who rent:

Is Your House or Condo in Thailand An Illegal Hotel?

Edited May 15, 2017 by Idefix

[Bazle 1,485]

Hi MM.

Your title seems wrong to me. The article is about illegal businesses, not guesthouses.

 

The problem in Thailand are the thousand of "hotels" or guesthouses-too-big-to-be-legally-a-guesthouse. They need to register and have an hotel license, but so many don't have, and it was not really a problem (no control) until recently.

They already targeted several big illegal hotels in Pattaya last year, and Google will show you it happen everywhere in Thailand.

See http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/advanced/1154636/guesthouse-hotel-crackdown-no-more-mai-pen-rai

 

A problem you get in many sectors, and I understand the reaction of big companies who have to pay licenses and respect strict rules (with costs) and have this growing illegal concurrence.

 

BTW many still cheap legal hotels in Pattaya IMHO

 

Edit: For owners who rent:

Is Your House or Condo in Thailand An Illegal Hotel?

 

I attended the AGM of my condo development yesterday and it appears we have a big problem with short term stayers (just a few days) who create noise and damage, some of whom have found the accommodation through Airbnb. Condo management reckon they are powerless to do anything about the problem.

 

So a crackdown on accommodation not registered as hotels being used as hotels would be welcome to me.

[MM 6,562]

Hi MM.

Your title seems wrong to me. The article is about illegal businesses, not guesthouses.

 

The problem in Thailand are the thousand of "hotels" or guesthouses-too-big-to-be-legally-a-guesthouse. They need to register and have an hotel license, but so many don't have, and it was not really a problem (no control) until recently.

They already targeted several big illegal hotels in Pattaya last year, and Google will show you it happen everywhere in Thailand.

See http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/advanced/1154636/guesthouse-hotel-crackdown-no-more-mai-pen-rai

 

A problem you get in many sectors, and I understand the reaction of big companies who have to pay licenses and respect strict rules (with costs) and have this growing illegal concurrence.

 

BTW many still cheap legal hotels in Pattaya IMHO

 

Edit: For owners who rent:

Is Your House or Condo in Thailand An Illegal Hotel?

The article says it is about "a glut of non-registered hotels and illegal businesses still offering cheap products and services to low-quality tourists" which includes guesthouses as well as non-registered hotels.

 

They also go on to say "More than 2,100 buildings provide accommodation in the Pattaya market, representing 139,000 rooms. Of the figure, only 270 operators with a total of 40,000 rooms have registered as hotels." which sounds to me that they are making a case for the large proportion of buildings and room capacity that is not registered, i.e. illegal (40,000 legal vs 99,000 unregistered rooms).

 

The title of the post might be more eye-catching than comprehensive, but given the number of members who do use what are likely "unregistered rooms", mostly in guesthouses, I think a bit of literary license was appropriate.

[Idefix 2,275]

A legal guesthouse is neither a "non-register hotel" nor a "illegal business".

Confusion maybe because in Pattaya many said "guesthouse" are too big to be a legal guesthouse,

so they are in fact "non-register hotels" and then "illegal business".

Legal (and then small) guesthouses do not need to register, do not need hotel license.

But OK, I will not go to war for that detail.

[Goldpanner 399]

I'm not a 'Low qulaity Tourist' Cheap Charlie maybe but not low quality.

Just seems like the big boys ganging up on the small guys. Happens all over the world.

[Shaun 2]

This is all a bit stupid IMO. Most of the accommodation in Pattaya is not really that upmarket anyway. Sure there there is the Hilton, Holiday Inn, Avani resort and a few others

 

I would not even call some popular places like Areca Lodge, LK Empress, or LK Royal Suite that upmarket. I've stayed at a few LK hotels, nice, but I'd hardly say the tourists there are more

"high quality" than anywhere else.

 

What is a 'high quality tourist' anyway? Take away the bars, go go's, cafes, restaurants and especially GIRLS in Pattaya and hardly anyone would go there. Are good tourists only those who are rich and spend shitloads of money?

A lot of the "wealthier" tourists ( eg ,Chinese ) don't spend much anyway, or it is "zero value tourism" which has been talked about in regard to Pattaya. That is, Chinese booking Thai holidays with Chinese owned companies, using Chinese airlines, staying at Chinese owned hotels,, eating at Chinese owned restaurants, shopping in Chinese owned shops. Then there is the spitting and pissing in the street, barking like dogs in mobile phones and clogging up the streets with their stupid tour groups. Is this "high quality" tourism?

 

So maybe Thai tourism leaders should be careful what they wish for. Take away white men, bars, bar girls, and Pattaya will be nothing.

[short 215]

sounds like they are targeting airBnB. They are becoming rather large in Pattaya/Jomtien because of the folks renting their condos.

[wacmedia 277]

sounds like they are targeting airBnB. They are becoming rather large in Pattaya/Jomtien because of the folks renting their condos.

 

Hi,

 

Just going to mention them. I was thinking if I bought a house I could rent out a few rooms to other low quality tourists to pay my expenses.

[teelack 9,635]

Not sure but this might kill the Pommie Trade. The English might be the biggest users of Bed and Breakfast in the world. It is a tradition and is similar to the boarding houses of Pattaya. Without these many English in times past would never have been able to afford a holiday. I never stayed in an English hotel until I could afford to pay for it myself.

[monkeyman 1,604]

Well that's the Indians fucked then.

[js007 795]

Eliminate guesthouses? All they'd be doing is eliminating a large group of tourists. It hardly follows that "rich" tourists will take their place.

[Evil Penevil 7,628]

 

I attended the AGM of my condo development yesterday and it appears we have a big problem with short term stayers (just a few days) who create noise and damage, some of whom have found the accommodation through Airbnb. Condo management reckon they are powerless to do anything about the problem.

 

So a crackdown on accommodation not registered as hotels being used as hotels would be welcome to me.

 

I moved out of View Talay 6 after a year because of all the hassle with short-stay guests who rented through Airbnb. The condo next to mine was rented out on that basis and one night a very drunk Russian mistook my door for his and tried to kick it in when his key wouldn't work. Because of earlier incidents with blaring loud music in the middle of the night, I had the direct number to the building's security guards, but they didn't get to my floor fast enough to make a difference. The noise finally aroused the other two guys who were staying with him next door and they dragged him inside.

 

The door held, but had to be replaced. My landlord wasn't pleased, although there wasn't much he could do. The Russians denied any knowledge of kicking the door and the condo's owner refused to take responsibility. The management of the building couldn't (or wouldn't) do anything, either. It was at that point I told the landlord I wouldn't be renewing the lease. He moved me to a condo on another floor for the two months that remained on the lease, but there was so much noise and general hassle I moved when the lease expired. He was absolutely livid about the whole Airbn thing.

 

Seems like it wouldn't be hard to make and enforce a rule that condos can only be rented out for six months at a minimum.

 

Evil

Edited May 16, 2017 by Evil Penevil

[tallguy 1,474]

 

I moved out of View Talay 6 after a year because of all the hassle with short-stay guests who rented through Airbnb. The condo next to mine was rented out on that basis and one night a very drunk Russian mistook my door for his and tried to kick it in when his key wouldn't work. Because of earlier incidents with blaring loud music in the middle of the night, I had the direct number to the building's security guards, but they didn't get to my floor fast enough to make a difference. The noise finally aroused the other two guys who staying with him next door and they dragged him inside.

 

The door held, but had to be replaced. My landlord wasn't pleased, although there wasn't much he could do. The Russians denied any knowledge of kicking the door and the condo's owner refused to take responsibility. The management of the building couldn't (or wouldn't) do anything, either. It was at that point I told the landlord I wouldn't be renewing the lease. He moved me to a condo on another floor for the two months that remained on the lease, but there was so much noise and general hassle I moved when the lease expired. He was absolutely livid about the whole Airbn thing.

 

Seems like it wouldn't be hard to make and enforce a rule that condos can only be rented out for six months at a minimum.

 

Evil

Isn't there already a law that they can't be rented out for less tha a month anyway? I seem to recall that there was some attempt to enforce the legislation last year but as with similar initiatives it didn't last long.

[Evil Penevil 7,628]

Isn't there already a law that they can't be rented out for less tha a month anyway? I seem to recall that there was some attempt to enforce the legislation last year but as with similar initiatives it didn't last long.

 

I believe that the law states only rooms in establishments licensed as hotels can be rented out for less than a month. Anyone who rents out a condo or two for less than a month is in violation of Thai law, but as you note, the law isn't vigorously enforced.

 

I was thinking it wouldn't be hard for the condo associations to make and enforce their own rules against ST rentals. The explanation I have heard as to why this isn't done is that it would drive property values down, especially in buildings where owners have bought condos for the purpose of renting them out for income. It's not easy to find long-term tenants in Pattaya and ST are the only way some condo owners can earn money. If all of them were forced to sell their rental units, the already over-flooded condo market would take a further hit. Of course they could let their units stand empty until a LT renter come along- and many do just that- but most can't afford to do that.

 

Evil

[Bazle 1,485]

 

Seems like it wouldn't be hard to make and enforce a rule that condos can only be rented out for six months at a minimum.

 

 

I was thinking it wouldn't be hard for the condo associations to make and enforce their own rules against ST rentals.

 

The explanation I have heard as to why this isn't done is that it would drive property values down, especially in buildings where owners have bought condos for the purpose of renting them out for income. It's not easy to find long-term tenants in Pattaya and ST are the only way some condo owners can earn money. If all of them were forced to sell their rental units, the already over-flooded condo market would take a further hit. Of course they could let their units stand empty until a LT renter come along- and many do just that- but most can't afford to do that.

 

At the AGM I attended, the owners tried to pressurise the management committee (MC) to take action. The MC said it was powerless: we already had a rule that no let should be for less than 3 months but it was either ignored or lets were made for that period by the owners but then there were sub-lets of shorter duration made.

 

I and many others were not convinced that the MC was committed to doing all it could to deal with the problem. It was mentioned that the developer had sold many units with guaranteed rental returns. My guess is that many of the problem units are owned by the developer (who still seems to have considerable influence in the running of the development, possibly by threatening to withhold payment of service charges) or have been sold with the guaranteed return.

 

I suggested that we reported the problem owners to Immigration for almost certain failure to file forms TM30. The response was that Immigration is very under-resourced to deal with that, and it would cost us money to get Immigration interested.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Bazle

[jacko 8,813]

 

 

At the AGM I attended, the owners tried to pressurise the management committee (MC) to take action. The MC said it was powerless: we already had a rule that no let should be for less than 3 months but it was either ignored or lets were made for that period by the owners but then there were sub-lets of shorter duration made.

 

I and many others were not convinced that the MC was committed to doing all it could to deal with the problem. It was mentioned that the developer had sold many units with guaranteed rental returns. My guess is that many of the problem units are owned by the developer (who still seems to have considerable influence in the running of the development, possibly by threatening to withhold payment of service charges) or have been sold with the guaranteed return.

 

I suggested that we reported the problem owners to Immigration for almost certain failure to file forms TM30. The response was that Immigration is very under-resourced to deal with that, and it would cost us money to get Immigration interested.

Strikes me that immigration would be glad to collect a load of 2000 baht fines although not be keen to leave their comfy office!

Many condo buildings have a small office which facilitates rentals and takes a commission on them, and I know for sure that rentals under 6 months term are included.

Putting a search into Airbnb produces a plethora of Pattaya short term condo rentals.

Edited May 17, 2017 by jacko
typo

[Nightrider 340]

Airbnb is the scourge of modern society and is causing problems all over the world with it's short term rentals..........

[Bazle 1,485]

Airbnb is the scourge of modern society and is causing problems all over the world with it's short term rentals..........

 

It's beginning to look that way.

 

Sadly, I think it is going to be a problem eliminating it now, although I would have thought that governments around the world would be motivated to try because of the tax they are losing.

[BigusDicus 9,878]

 

It's beginning to look that way.

 

Sadly, I think it is going to be a problem eliminating it now, although I would have thought that governments around the world would be motivated to try because of the tax they are losing.

 

Here in the US, Airbnb has begun to pay taxes to many of the affected cities, etc. Suddenly cites are not that eager to eliminate Airbnb....

[Idefix 2,275]

Here in the US, Airbnb has begun to pay taxes to many of the affected cities, etc.

Suddenly cites are not that eager to eliminate Airbnb....

Cannot speak for the full World, but in my country the battle was not to "eliminate Airbnb" but to avoid unfair competition with hotels who pay licenses, hosting taxes, revenues taxes...

Problem also was that more and more professional renters were using Rnbnb because of these advantages.

Last a heard is that - at least in French biggest cities - Rnbnb will now pay hosting taxes, will give listing of renters to the Revenues Tax Service, and will limit to 120 the number of nights you can rent your house per year. Seems a rather good solution IMHO.

[Bazle 1,485]

Cannot speak for the full World, but in my country the battle was not to "eliminate Airbnb" but to avoid unfair competition with hotels who pay licenses, hosting taxes, revenues taxes...

Problem also was that more and more professional renters were using Rnbnb because of these advantages.

Last a heard is that - at least in French biggest cities - Rnbnb will now pay hosting taxes, will give listing of renters to the Revenues Tax Service, and will limit to 120 the number of nights you can rent your house per year. Seems a rather good solution IMHO.

 

 

I wish you could feed this info. to the Thai government!