The Truth about Aids/HIV

[PattayaPete 531]

All truth passes through 3 stages

 

First it is ridiculed

Second it’s violently opposed

Third it is accepted as self evident

 

That’s a quote from the movie documentary “House of Numbers”. A film that looks at the current and previous state of Aids research through the eyes of many notable and well qualified researchers. The film reaches no conclusion on the validity of Aids as we currently see it but it clearly shows there are very divergent opinions among those who should be in the know.

 

I’d thoroughly recommend that anyone with an interest in Aids watches this documentary. It is availably as torrent on piratebay at House of Numbers

 

I have had my doubts about Aids for a long time. It’s not that I don’t believe it exists but more that I have always felt we (the public) are not getting the full truth. I’ve posted about this before but always in a way to encourage others to do their own research rather than as a full doubter.

 

The problem with researching Aids yourself though is that it soon becomes evident that there are many differing opinions even among the medical community directly researching the disease. If paid medical researchers, doctors and Phd’s, some with Nobel Prizes, can’t agree then how could a lay person like me ever work it out. The truth of the matter is that I can not. I simply don’t have the medical training to evaluate the different arguments.

 

What I liked about the documentary is that you get to see these eminent researchers clearly in their own words, mislead, obfuscate and plain lie. I can make this judgment even as a lay person simply because the stories of these people are so different. One or other of the various groups must be lying. There is no other conclusion. As to which group are the liars . . . well you must decide for yourself but I think it is pretty damn obvious.

 

My reasons for being a doubter of the Aids story as we know it today stems from my own personal experience living here in Pattaya and operating several bars.

 

I first moved to Pattaya to live in 1997. At the time HIV/Aids was big news in Thailand. Thailand had one of the highest infection rates in the world. It’s pretty obvious that the Pattaya life style should make Pattaya one of the highest risk places in Thailand and therefore the world.

 

As I was operating a bar where ladies of the night were available I felt some responsibility to take whatever precautions I could. I believe we were one of the first bars to require mandatory HIV tests for all the girls, from a doctor we nominated and felt sure would not falsify the tests. We also instructed all new girls on the use of condoms and provided them free of charge.

 

Despite this I knew many of our customers asked the girls not to use condoms and the girls often complied with their wishes. Surely a recipe for disaster.

 

I also ran this forum where many punters discussed life in Pattaya. Over the years the Aids subject has been raised many times and many of the members have openly admitted they do not use condoms with the girls.

 

Around the year 2000 the story broke that you could get Aids from oral sex. It was big news at the time and it shocked me. I had always been “safe” in my own sexual activities but had never used condoms for oral sex. Clearly I was now also at severe risk. An Aids test quickly followed and I was relieved to get a negative result.

 

I don’t know about you but for me a covered blow job just does not cut it. So I had some hard decisions to make about my own lifestyle. That led me to first do my own internet based research on Aids and particularly the possibility of getting it through unprotected oral sex. I was pretty amazed to find that there were no documented cases of anyone being infected through oral sex alone. All reported cases had also indulged in other “unsafe” sexual practices. Then it turned out that in the case which led to the oral sex headlines the victim had lied about his sexual activity. Originally claiming to have only ever had oral sex but it was later discovered he was gay and had anal intercourse with other gay men. After this false alert I started to have some doubts that we were being told the whole truth about Aids.

 

That story also got me thinking how strange it was that in all my time in Pattaya I’d never met anyone with HIV and none of the girls had ever tested positive for it. Possibly the riskiest place in the world for HIV infection and yet no one I knew was infected. I have met thousands of men and girls in Pattaya over the years. I have seen the medical tests of hundreds of girls. Not a single case. Not one!

 

There have been the odd reports on the forum of a friend of a friend having contracted the disease in Pattaya but like all friend of friends stories, impossible to verify.

 

I do however know three people who are HIV positive. Gumlye lives in the house next door to my Isaan house. She first tested HIV positive in 1997 during a routine test during her pregnancy. Her husband was also tested and found to be positive. The child, Top also tested positive after he was born. Her husband died shortly thereafter presumably from full blown aids. Gumlye is poor, uneducated and generally ostracized in the village.

 

We have always been friendly with her and she takes care of our Isaan house as we are not there most of the time. She does not take any Aids drugs despite my encouraging her to get them. They are available free from the main hospital but that’s 30 kilometers away and not “very convenient”. Gumlye lives a relatively comfortable lifestyle these days. We pay her for taking care of the house, she has a small farm which provides a lot of the food she needs and she has a new man in her life (also HIV positive).

 

So here we are in 2011. I have lived in possibly the most dangerous place in the world for HIV infection for near on 14 years. Gumlye and her son remain the only HIV victims I know and guess what. She is perfectly healthy as is Top. They were just here in Pattaya visiting us and Top is now 13 years old and a big strapping boy. Gumlye seems to have aged better than many of the village Thais I know.

 

So what does this long winded post mean. To me it is obvious that something is wrong with the Aids story as we have been told it. I would never say it is a total fabrication and I am well aware of the great work places like the Camillian Center in Rayong do for Aids victims. (Camillian Center Website)

 

However the whole Aids story just does not make sense. Clearly there is much more going on here than we are led to believe. Doubters and conspiracy theorists are often nutty but I really have approached this issue with as open a mind as possible. I don’t think I am nutty but I have very strong doubts that we have heard the full story on Aids.

 

I do believe if you took poverty and anal sex out of the equation then Aids statistics would look very different. I do believe the medical research arena and big pharmaceutical companies are well served by the situation as it exists today and have no interest in changing our views on what HIV/Aids is, how it’s contracted and what should be done about it.

 

I believe a few other things too but I’ll keep those beliefs to myself for now. If you are interested in this and have an opinion I’d like to read it here. Please try not to be too nutty and do watch the documentary first.

[Gabor 296]

Sorry to say, but the usual business owner bullshit... I, the tourist know ( first hand info... ) 2 working girls in Pattaya infected with HIV... One of them stopped her medication and almost died... Go and see at the Sri Racha hospital the dozens of the girls waiting every single day for their monthly dose of HIV medications...

[lovedog100 1,372]

That story also got me thinking how strange it was that in all my time in Pattaya I’d never met anyone with HIV and none of the girls had ever tested positive for it. Possibly the riskiest place in the world for HIV infection and yet no one I knew was infected. I have met thousands of men and girls in Pattaya over the years. I have seen the medical tests of hundreds of girls. Not a single case. Not one!

I can say as well that I have never known anyone with AIDS. I have known several that have died of AIDS. Maybe people with AIDS don't go around telling everybody they have it.

 

I often go to Starbucks for morning coffee with friends. When it's not to hot we sit outside, talk and watch the ladies. There was one girl working beach road there, about 32, long hair to her ass, a petite little spinner that would stop by and talk. She was friendly, and could speak English well. She was always offering me short time for 300 baht. One day I told her that I would take her the next morning, as I had woke horny that morning and did the girlfriend. The next day, she was right by my side when I got there. I'm not sure why, but I decided against taking her, even though she said that she already had an aircon room and wouldn't have to pay for the room.

 

A couple of days later, I was talking with one of my friends about her, and he said that he had taken her for 300 baht, and he didn't have to wear a condom. The deal was to good to pass up, but that she was a starfish. Needless to say, I never went with the girl. About a month later, someone noticed that he hadn't seen her in a while and asked one of the other girls what happened to her. Anwer: She died of AIDS. The girl worked beach road up until she collapsed and died of AIDS.

 

I'm sure that my friend is scared to death now. He did her bare back. Though now, he says that he used a condom. I have to wonder now, has he been infected, as his story has changed. He could just as easily have said, I went and got checked and am negative. I don't believe the condom story, because he was always saying that he liked bare back, and would even pay extra for it. I do hope he got checked, he said that he was going to. Anyway, if he dies from it, I will still be able to say I've never known anyone with HIV/Aids. I've never once had anyone admit it to me.

 

HIV/AIDS seems to be one of those things that nobody has, but many die from.

[laffnliv 78]

I have known two gals that have died of Aids. One was a katoey. I know of one other that has it and has gone back to the village to die.

 

I also know of two gals who drank themselves to death. One was lesbian. And I knew one gal who died of malnutrition.

 

But as been said, most that are ill don't talk about it.

 

Little Roy

[rascall 130]

For me this is a very interesting post. Thanks Pete for starting it off. I am surprised that there has not been many replies. I can also acknowledge the posts from those who have replied. The whole issue of HIV is complicated. I had the biggest scare of my life with HIV not too long ago. The anxiety and distress that it caused will remain with me for the remainder of my days.

 

If you are interested you can read my story here:- http://www.pattayatalk.com/forums/index.ph...t=0&start=0

 

I hope others will add to this post. This is a good topic and one that must cross all of our minds at some time. If you read my story you may change your views.

 

.

[Irish boy 67]

I work alongside many Sexual Health Professionals, and am no sranger to GUM Clinics, again through my work.

 

The concensus from the Consultants, Nurses ect is that HIV is very rarely caught by a man from hetrosexual, vaginal sex, and the odds are reduced by about half again if the man is circumcised. Not so for the female, she has a far higher chance of catching it as the virus is carried in sperm..................but, there is always a risk!!!

[spike 236]

A couple of days later, I was talking with one of my friends about her, and he said that he had taken her for 300 baht, and he didn't have to wear a condom. The deal was to good to pass up, but that she was a starfish. Needless to say, I never went with the girl. About a month later, someone noticed that he hadn't seen her in a while and asked one of the other girls what happened to her. Anwer: She died of AIDS. The girl worked beach road up until she collapsed and died of AIDS.

 

I'm sure that my friend is scared to death now. He did her bare back. Though now, he says that he used a condom. I have to wonder now, has he been infected, as his story has changed. He could just as easily have said, I went and got checked and am negative. I don't believe the condom story, because he was always saying that he liked bare back, and would even pay extra for it. I do hope he got checked, he said that he was going to. Anyway, if he dies from it, I will still be able to say I've never known anyone with HIV/Aids. I've never once had anyone admit it to me.

 

It will probably be the same with your friend...

 

One day you'll have coffee at Starbucks with him while chatting to the girls of Beach Road...the next day he won't show up...two weeks later, you'll ask a friend what became of him...and your friend will answer "he died of AIDS."

 

all those AIDS patients who waste away in a bed... waiting to die... will be glad to know they can keep shagging...and working....until they just keel over dead.

Edited January 26, 2011 by spike

[captcraig2 120]

For me this is a very interesting post. Thanks Pete for starting it off. I am surprised that there has not been many replies. I can also acknowledge the posts from those who have replied. The whole issue of HIV is complicated. I had the biggest scare of my life with HIV not too long ago. The anxiety and distress that it caused will remain with me for the remainder of my days.

 

If you are interested you can read my story here:- http://www.pattayatalk.com/forums/index.ph...t=0&start=0

 

I hope others will add to this post. This is a good topic and one that must cross all of our minds at some time. If you read my story you may change your views.

 

.

 

 

Yeah I remember that trip report but I'll be honest, it sounded like you were trying to write a novel and I didn't believe it then and after reading it again it even sounds more fabricated!

[Paul BRS 64]

An interesting post.

 

I do believe however that HIV is a real threat and will continue wrapping up.

[BigDUSA 71]

My wife is a RN who worked for a couple of years at one of our local prisons. She told me today that 10% of the prison population had HIV/AIDS.

 

I take the following precautions. As soon as I finish I wash my dick with a baby wipe and take a leak. If I've gone down on the girl. I rinse my mouth with Listerine.

[Barrief 250]

.

 

Pacman and I, were having a beer one summer’s evening, about a year after I first met Ooy. We’d returned home from Pattaya a few weeks previously. While we were on that trip Ooy had developed a persistent cough. I took her to Boots, the Pharmacy, in ‘Big C’ for some medication, but it didn’t seem to help much. After we returned I spoke to her on the phone a couple of times a week, and each time we talked the cough seemed to be getting worse. She was also losing weight. She was down to 39 kilo.

 

Sitting there by the Sea, on the Coast of Kent, on this summer’s evening, with a mate and a beer or two, what could be better. But Ooy kept slipping into my mind, and how ill she seemed to be getting. She had all the symptoms of Tuberculosis, which is rife in Thailand, caused by drinking infected unpasturised milk. I voiced my fears to Pacman.

 

We discussed it for a while, when he said “why don’t we go back there next week.” We’d only been back home around five or six weeks, and so returning now would wipe out my cash reserves. But I couldn’t see any alternative. Tuberculosis is curable these days, but left untreated for too long, it’s certain death. We arrived in Pattaya six days later.

 

I hadn’t told Ooy that I was returning so she freaked when she saw me walking down Soi 8 towards her Bar. It was great to be back and it was about now that I started having thoughts of taking her back to the UK. Returning to Pattaya then was a good idea. I’d not been sleeping well for worrying about her and wondering what to do. It was such a relief being there and knowing that the next day we would be in one of the Hospitals and getting her sorted. I slept well that night.

 

Roy (laffnlive) had recommended a Doctor near the Bangkok Bank, on Second Road. Dr Belen. On a previous trip Roy had been very ill indeed. She’d put him on a drip and sat with him in his Hotel room all night. She spoke to Ooy for five minutes or so, when she turned to me and said, “I would like to send her to the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital for a full examination.” I readily agreed. She made a phone call to the Hospital and ten minutes later we were at the reception desk.

 

They were expecting us, and after taking a few details from Ooy, we were shown into Dr Prasit’s office. He’d obviously got information from Dr Belen when she'd spoke to him, and I voiced my fears about TB. He sent Ooy for an XRay and blood tests and told us to come back in an hour.

 

I was elated as we sat in a restaurant on the Sukhumvit Road, having lunch to pass the hour away. Ooy was going to get treated and in a few weeks she would be OK. I was thinking of what I had to do about getting together all the info needed for a Visa. I’d not said anything to Ooy about taking her back to the UK. But when I returned in a few months she would be healthy and I would have all the paperwork needed for the Visa. I would ask her then, but I couldn’t imagine her not wanting to go.

 

The hour flew by, as I was absorbed in my thoughts about being at home with Ooy. We were shown into Dr Prasit’s office, where he was in the process of putting an XRay up on an illuminated box. He turned to me and pointing to the XRay he said:

 

“She doesn’t have TB but she is HIV Positive. I think it’s worse than that. I think she may have AIDS.” He paused for a second or two, as my brian buzzed and went numb.

 

He continued: “I can’t be sure how far it’s progressed, unless we send a blood sample to Bangkok for a ‘T’ cell count.” He looked directly at me, and I could tell he was wondering how I would react. “Do you want to do that?” he asked. I nodded.

 

“I’ll give her some antibiotics for the chest infection now, then if you come back in three days I’ll know what we need to do for the future.” I nodded. My mouth was dry and I was developing a headache.

 

He turned to Ooy and presumably told her the same. I watched her closely not knowing what to expect. Her face was impassive, set in stone... When he finished she said something to him briefly.

 

He turned to me: “Will you pay for her treatment?” he said. I asked how much it would cost.

 

“About seven or eight thousand baht a month.” I said OK, not giving it much thought at the time.

 

We rode back to the Hotel in the Baht Taxi in silence. Holding each other tight. When we got into the room she sat on the edge of the bed. I sat beside her, putting my arm round her shoulders.

 

“When me die teerak?” she said. Tears streaming down her face.

 

My first thought was “Bastards. Don’t these people have any humanities?” He should have sent her to a Councillor who could have explained that it was not a death sentence. With the right treatment she could live a long and near normal life. I did my best to explain this to her and she eventually fell asleep.

 

I laid down on the bed beside her considering the implications. I don’t know if I can say that I was in love with Ooy. But I was certainly very fond of her. She was attractive and was easy to be with. I felt a bond between us. Could I walk away and let her die\x00\x00a? Right then I couldn’t. Seven or eight thousand Baht a month was easily affordable. It would have virtually no effect on my life at all. But... I would be paying for the rest of my life.

 

When we returned to the Hospital three days later, Dr Prasit confirmed the diagnosis. Her ‘T’ cell count was so low that she could die within a few months. Her body had very little immunity from infections. He explained to me, and then to Ooy, the strict drug regime. She had to take six or seven pills every twelve hours. Without fail. No alcohol of course.

 

The Holiday was a mess. We’d hardly left the room for the last three days. Ooy spent most of her time sleeping and it was difficult to get her to eat anything. When Dr Prasit gave her a diet sheet, and explained that if she were to stick to the diet and drug regime, there is no reason why\x00\x00a she wouldn’t have along life, she brightened up a little.

 

As we were leaving the office Dr Prasit said to me: “Do you want an HIV test?”

 

Oh Shit! Until he said that I hadn’t even thought about it. “No, I said.” There was no point in having a test now. If I were infected there was nothing I could do about it. I’d wait until I got home. I wasn’t optimistic. I’d been with Ooy since my very first trip to Thailand, one year and three trips ago. I’d had at least 80 unprotected shags.

 

 

I was in turmoil. Not least because there was the possibility that I was infected. But what to do about Ooy? There was no way I was going to send her back to the Village with a monthly allowance. That would cost another 20,000 Baht a month... for the rest of my life. There was no way I could bring her back to the UK now, they wouldn’t let her in.\x00\x00 I definitely wasn’t going to Thailand to live. Not for many years anyway. If I sent her back to the Village the nearest City where she could get treatment was 80 miles away. So that was another complication.

 

Not for the first time I wondered if I was doing the best thing in paying for her treatment. But I still couldn’t bring myself to walk away and let her die. The only alternative was to leave her working in Pattaya. She had to work to survive. Even back then as a Newbie, I knew that she w\x00\x00would go with Farang while I was away. Before she was diagnosed I didn’t care if she did. But now?....

 

=====================================================

 

When I got home I went to the clinic for a test. I explained why, and all the circumstances. The Female Doctor seemed concerned. She was obviously thinking the same as me. She offered me Counselling, even before the result was known. I declined.

 

The Clinic ask you to phone in for the result in about a week. I didn’t want to do that. If it was bad news I wanted to be in front of a Doctor \x00\x00and get it sorted quickly. The Clinic is just a mile from my home so I drove there. I hadn’t got an appointment, but in any case the Receptionist gives you an envelope once you have given your password. She pulled the envelope out of a pigeon hole and I could see a note attached to it. Looking up from the note she said: “The Doctor want’s to see you. Can you wait”?

 

It was almost an hour before I was called to see the Doctor. By then of course, I was convinced that it was the worst possible news. She said: “The test has come back negative.”

 

I should have been elated. But I wasn’t. There had to be something else. She went on to tell me that it could take up to three to six months before HIV antibodies show up. (Oh f***ing great!) She said “I want to see you in three months, and if that is negative then again three months after that.”

 

On my return three months later, she told me it was negative. She asked about how I felt in general. “Do you have any Flu or Cold like symptoms?” I told her that I didn’t, I felt fine. (Silly Tart. If I get a a cold or something during the next three months, I’m going to worry.)

 

“Hmm. You may be OK,” she said. I was. The last test was clear. Later I had another test in Pattaya. Everything OK.

 

=====================================================

 

Before I'd left Pattaya both the Doctor and I, told Ooy that she was not to go with any men. None! Not even with a Condom. I\x00\x00n the heat of the moment Condoms come off or break. Farang who are into arse shagging are particularly at risk. I wasn’t. I was lucky. I knew she wouldn’t take any notice of that. Especially if some Farang waved three thousand baht under her nose. After all she has to live.

 

I still didn’t know what to do. I still couldn’t walk away. Should I tell the Bar Owner in the Hope that he would keep her on as “Service Only.” It was a risk telling him. If he kept her on as “Service only” he would be able to keep an eye on her. But the odds were that he would get rid of her bloody quick.

 

Later I discussed it with Roy. I had no one else that I could confide in. We kicked it around for a long time and even then we couldn’t come up with a solution. \x00\x00I gave that a lot of thought.

 

It would accomplish nothing if I told the Bar Owner. If he sacked her, then she could just move to another Bar, in Jomtien or Bangkok, or anywhere, and continue to infect others.

 

Then there is another factor. Many Bar owners compel their Girls to have monthly STD checks. This was obviously not happening in this Guys Bar. Had that been the Policy here, then I would not have been exposed to the risk of being infected. He didn’t give a shit about me, so why should I care about him. I remained silent.

 

The Beer Bar on Soi 8 (No longer there... demolished) was one of Roy’s favourite Bars. Roy is virtually resid\x00\x00ent in Pattaya, so he could keep an eye on her without her suspecting that he was doing so. He was already a regular customer.

 

So I offered Ooy a deal.

 

1/ I would pay all her medical expenses, even if she had a cold or broke a leg. She could go to the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital for treatment, and they would charge my credit card along with the AIDS treatment.

 

2/ She would work Service only. I knew her Boss and his Wife would have no objection to that. She worked hard behind the Bar and got on with Customers very well.

 

3/ I would pay her room rent each month. (I paid it quarterly) Which means that all the money s\x00\x00˚he earned was hers, with no expenses. She would always have a roof over her head and never go hungry.

 

I would just mention at this point that Ooy was a mature Girl. But she was attractive. She had two kids, a Girl and a Boy. The Girl had married a Japanese Guy and the Boy (20) worked on the family Farm. There were no real pressures on her to support the Family.

 

Ooy agreed. She had no alternative. It must have been terrifying for her to know that her life depended on an unpredictable Farang. (That’s how they see us.)

 

It worked well. She stuck to the strict drugs regime, attended the monthly appointment at the Hospital on time, and as far as I could tell she kept to her diet. I had a problem trying to get her eat three or for bananas every day (She considers bananas to be Monkey food) but she needed the calories to put weight back on, and needed the potassium.

 

During the next couple of years or so I was going back to the LOS three or four times a year. The last time I saw\x00\x00 her she weighed 49 kilo. She was almost chubby.

 

I always went to see Dr Prasit who kept me updated on her progress. He was incredibly pleased with her. On one occasion he told me that her ‘T’ cell count was almost that of a normal person.

 

We made frequent trips to see her family in Nong Song Hong, and had some fabulous Parties. (Those Thai Guys can’t hold their drink. HA!) I loved the kids best of all, they were fun. I wrote several trip reports about my visits to Isan.

 

I couldn’t have sex with Ooy. Not only because it was risky, but I would not have been able to get turned on with someone who had AIDS. This caused frequent arguments and tears. But she and I just had to live with it.

 

Then on one of my visits to the Hospital, I asked Dr Prasit if she had told him if she knew how she had contracted the disease. Apparently, she worked in Bangkok, as a singer in a Band, before she came to Pattaya. She was having an affair with one of the Band members. She had been having this affair when she discovered that he had the Virus. When she confronted him about it, she was sacked.

 

I tried not to show my dismay. But I think he knew he’d done wrong by telling me. What he was saying was that Ooy KNEW that there was a strong possibility that\x00\x00Ö she was HIV Positive when she was going with me. I felt betrayed. I hardly need mention that I was angry. She didn’t care about me back then. She didn’t give a shit if I got AIDS or not.

 

This came at a time when Roy had told me that she had been missing from the Bar on a few Occasions. I really didn’t want a confrontation with her at that time. I was going home in a couple of days and I needed time to think.

 

I was a coward. I pushed the problem to the back of my mind, refusing to deal with it. I’d been home a couple of weeks when I got an Email from another mate. Ooy had been missing from the Bar for two or three days. I had to face the truth. But I needed to find out for myself.

 

I called her at three in the morning, Thai time, knowing that she would be back in her room by then. Or...

 

She never turned her phone off. Not after I'd had a real ding dong with her for doing so on a couple of previous occasions. So, it didn’t surprise me when it rang. What did surprise me was when she answered with “ello?” Tentatively. She never said that. It was always “hello teerak.” And from there, she would gable off ‘ten to the dozen’. This time she was hesitant. What also surprised me was that there was an echo behind her voice. Like she was standing in an oil drum, but which I knew was a Hotel Bathroom.

 

“Where you?” I said.

 

“Loom me,” she replied.

 

“You Lie!” “You Lie!”

 

Then I heard a mans voice. German or Scandinavian accent: “Who that?” the voice asked.

 

Ten seconds passed when she said to me: “me outside now.”

 

“You Hotel Bathroom with Man Farang,” I said angrily, my voice moving up a notch or two.

 

“No, me toilets, at Bar.” I heard the Farang voice say something again.

 

“You Lie.” I cut the connection. That was the last time I was ever going \x00\x00to speak to her.

 

I was at work when I called her that night, delivering the Chinky grub. For the next couple of hours I can hardly remember doing the deliveries. I was as angry as I could get.

 

I hated her as much as I had hated anyone for the next couple of hours. Not because she broke our agreement, but because I knew I would withdraw my support and she would eventually die. And it would be me that was responsible for her eventual death.

 

I was a coward. Even then I didn’t cut off her medical funds. I couldn’t send the Email to the Chief Cashier at the Hospital, cutting off her lifeline. I had about twenty days before the next payment was due to be taken off my Credit Card. I prevaricated.

 

I needed someone to talk to. But I had no one. I was due to go to Dinner on the following Monday with Dave (Mirkwood) and Add, his Thai wife. I made up my mind to tell them about Ooy and the AIDS thing. And the recent events.

 

Dave was surprised. Not so much at the AIDS thing, but at the fact that she would throw it all away. Add treated it all off handedly. As far as she was concerned it was normal. She was basically saying that the money comes first. Both dave and I said nothing when she said this. We went across to the Pub for a beer. I couldn’t cope with the difference in Cultures. Dave said nothing. But I think he was surprised at his Wife’s reaction. It was a couple of weeks later when I stopped the funds for Ooy’s treatment.

 

 

During the next couple of years I had many E-mails and Phone ca\x00\x00lls. I answered neither. Except that she caught me out on my Birthday last year. I’d been having calls from the Kids and my Grandchildren, wishing me a happy Birthday. So when the phone rang yet again, I picked it up without looking to see who was calling. It was Ooy. She sang me ‘happy birthday’ all the way through, in between sobs.

 

It was so hard to put the phone down. I wanted to grab her, and put my arms round her and say sorry. I wanted to get the next flight there. But I had to remind myself that she put my life in danger by having unprotected sex with me, knowing she had AIDS. She didn’t care about me.

 

I’ve been away from home for a week or so recently, so I was out of the loop for a while. There was an Email from Roy (laffnlive) \x00\x00,and in replying I had to tell him that I couldn’t come to Pattaya in March.

 

His next Email was pretty bad, but not unexpected. This is it word for word.

 

========================================

 

“OK, so now will tell you about Ooy.  Didn't want to tell you until I

was with you.  Ooy has passed away.  We were told on Jan. 20 that it

happened two days before.  But you know about Thais and Thai time, not that it makes any difference.  Her problem was known but not talked about.  

 

Nee knew but didn't want to tell me, and I knew but didn't want to tell her.   Nee was VERY worried about you, but I explained that you had been checked at least three times and you are OK for sure.  Sorry to tell you by e-mail as it seems so impersonal to do so.  That's why I wanted to wait until you were he\x00\x00re so I could tell you in person.  Please don't agonise, Barrie.  I know you.  None of this was in any way your doing.  Ooy was her own worst enemy.

  

It's all very sad, but also very true.  You did wonderful things for her, but she had no respect for you or for anyone else as proven by her behaviour. I just hope she didn't infect anyone by her irresponsible behaviour.

 

=========================================

 

I said before that I didn’t know if I loved Ooy or not. I think maybe I did.

 

This affair was a dilemma that I didn’t know how to solve. I thought for a couple of years that I had cracked it. I was wrong.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Barrief

[laffnliv 78]

All that Barrie has said is true. No bull-shit. I was there.

 

Little Roy

[BigDUSA 71]

Barrief,

 

WOW. What a heartfelt post.

[joekicker 53]

One day you'll have coffee at Starbucks with him while chatting to the girls of Beach Road...the next day he won't show up...two weeks later, you'll ask a friend what became of him...and your friend will answer "he died of AIDS."

 

Very dramatic but won't happen. People don't drop dead of Aids, they waste away - kind of like cancer. If you don't notice your friend is dying, he isn't much of a friend.

 

I've watched two people die of Aids. It's very sad of course, because once it gets going, it's inevitable. A guy who is two weeks away from death of Aids, you kind of notice he weighs 45 pounds and vomits up the Starbucks on you -- so to speak. Actually, two weeks away from death, Aids victims can't get to Starbucks.

 

Barrie has posted about Ooy before. He does know what he's talking about. Experience is quite a teacher.

 

.

Edited January 27, 2011 by joekicker

[Paul BRS 64]

I have to say that Barriefs' story had me in tears.

 

You did the right thing all the way along and I dont know how I would have coped. Thank you for sharing and good luck to you in your life from now on.

 

Take care

 

Paul

[Samsonite 181]

....However the whole Aids story just does not make sense. Clearly there is much more going on here than we are led to believe. Doubters and conspiracy theorists are often nutty but I really have approached this issue with as open a mind as possible. I don’t think I am nutty but I have very strong doubts that we have heard the full story on Aids.

 

I do believe if you took poverty and anal sex out of the equation then Aids statistics would look very different. I do believe the medical research arena and big pharmaceutical companies are well served by the situation as it exists today and have no interest in changing our views on what HIV/Aids is, how it’s contracted and what should be done about it.....

After getting divorced and realizing I would be "back out there" looking for "companionship" I read as much on this subject as I could find on the Internet and elsewhere, and pretty much came to the same conclusions.

[joekicker 53]

I do believe if you took poverty and anal sex out of the equation then Aids statistics would look very different. I do believe the medical research arena and big pharmaceutical companies are well served by the situation as it exists today and have no interest in changing our views on what HIV/Aids is, how it’s contracted and what should be done about it.

 

If you took poverty and Africans out of the equation then malaria statistics would look very different. If you took Southeast Asia out of the equation, then dengue statistics would look very different. If you took batted runs out of the equation, cricket bowling statistics would look different.

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Aids/HIV generally speaking requires blood-to-blood transfer, and anal sex is a terrific way to initiate that. No mystery about that, and I'm unaware of any denial.

 

Big Pharma makes gazillions out of malaria and dengue and the common cold and short-sightedness and liver transplants. There *is* an Aids industry, of course there is - although nothing as big or organised as the cancer industry. But profits say nothing about the event. Big Pharma makes a lot more from the common cold than Aids. Of course if you removed fatigue and social interaction from the equation, then statistics on the common cold would look very different.

 

.

[Irish boy 67]

Barrief,

 

That has to be the most heartbreaking Post i've read on a Pattaya Forum, for all involved. You should be very proud of what you did, many, many would just have walked away as soon as she was diagnosed. You should bear no guilt mate, you were put in an impossible situation, which then just got worse. You can only help someone if they also try and help themselves.

 

If Karma exists, you my friend, will have many positives coming your way

[rascall 130]

Dear Barrie.

 

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I could relate to every single word of it. I can imagine the turmoil you went through and no doubt are still torturing yourself with.

 

You can rest assured that you done the right thing by Ooy. Your conscious should be clear. I completely understand the betrayal you must feel.

 

Can I ask you one thing please. If you are back in Pattaya in May would you please PM me. I would love to meet up with you and buy you a pint.

 

Good luck to you Barrie.

 

.

[jacko 8,827]

Barrief,

 

That has to be the most heartbreaking Post i've read on a Pattaya Forum, for all involved. You should be very proud of what you did, many, many would just have walked away as soon as she was diagnosed. You should bear no guilt mate, you were put in an impossible situation, which then just got worse. You can only help someone if they also try and help themselves.

 

If Karma exists, you my friend, will have many positives coming your way

I am not so sure.

I do believe Barrie's efforts came out of kindness, but the realities, in a pragmatic way, are he may have indirectly helped her infected others with HIV.

 

Of course the girl was the selfish and manipulative one, but Barrie, enabled her to 'go back to work'.

 

She had already showed a callous attitude to him, so why should she do different to others.

 

Quite a drama with no easy answers.

[Barrief 250]

I am not so sure.

I do believe Barrie's efforts came out of kindness, but the realities, in a pragmatic way, are he may have indirectly helped her infected others with HIV.

 

Of course the girl was the selfish and manipulative one, but Barrie, enabled her to 'go back to work'.

 

She had already showed a callous attitude to him, so why should she do different to others.

 

Quite a drama with no easy answers.

 

It is very difficult to get Aids from a Girl during normal Virginal sex. However, the risk is much greater if you participate in anal penetration, in as much as the aperture is much smaller and the chances of causing an abrasion of the Penis are that much greater.

 

If you have an abrasion, through over use etc., then if you have unprotected sex, virginal or other, the risk of getting an STD is very high indeed.

 

I posted the above cautionary story a few months after I learned that Ooy had died of an Aids related disease, as I felt obligated to warn others of the 'pit falls.' When Pete posted this thread I thought that perhaps it was time to reproduce it. The dangers are no less now than then.

 

I was a newbie back then and really thought that Ooy would keep her promise not to go with others and risk spreading the disease. I have learned a lot about Thai culture since then, and realise that it was a forlorn hope born out of naivety.

[Barrief 250]

Dear Barrie.

 

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I could relate to every single word of it. I can imagine the turmoil you went through and no doubt are still torturing yourself with.

 

You can rest assured that you done the right thing by Ooy. Your conscious should be clear. I completely understand the betrayal you must feel.

 

Can I ask you one thing please. If you are back in Pattaya in May would you please PM me. I would love to meet up with you and buy you a pint.

 

Good luck to you Barrie.

 

.

 

Yep, I'm in Pattaya from the 21st April to 9th May.

 

It's a notable date for me on two counts. It's the tenth anniversary of my first trip to Pattaya, plus a big birthday. I have some of my Kids coming out to help me celebrate (their first visit,) so it should be a good one.

 

I use FLB regularly, so if you want to PM me during the above dates, I would be pleased to have a drink with you.

[jacko 8,827]

It is very difficult to get Aids from a Girl during normal Virginal sex. However, the risk is much greater if you participate in anal penetration, in as much as the aperture is much smaller and the chances of causing an abrasion of the Penis are that much greater.

 

If you have an abrasion, through over use etc., then if you have unprotected sex, virginal or other, the risk of getting an STD is very high indeed.

 

I posted the above cautionary story a few months after I learned that Ooy had died of an Aids related disease, as I felt obligated to warn others of the 'pit falls.' When Pete posted this thread I thought that perhaps it was time to reproduce it. The dangers are no less now than then.

 

I was a newbie back then and really thought that Ooy would keep her promise not to go with others and risk spreading the disease. I have learned a lot about Thai culture since then, and realise that it was a forlorn hope born out of naivety.

I am unsure about all that Dr Barrie.... you yourself said...

there was the possibility that I was infected.

and

Before she was diagnosed I didn’t care if she did (go with falang). But now?....

also

I couldn’t have sex with Ooy. Not only because it was risky

But as I stated, it is quite a drama with no easy answers. And now that you realise that

I have learned a lot about Thai culture since then, and realise that it was a forlorn hope born out of naivety.

...what might you have done differently, in hindsight? Truly between the devil and the deep blue sea!

Nothing personal Barrie and no grudge here.

Edited January 28, 2011 by jacko

[Barrief 250]

I am unsure about all that Dr Barrie.... you yourself said... andalso

But as I stated, it is quite a drama with no easy answers. And now that you realise that ...what might you have done differently, in hindsight? Truly between the devil and the deep blue sea!

Nothing personal Barrie and no grudge here.

 

No problem jacko. No offence taken.

 

Re "Dr Barrie." I relate only what Dr Prasit at the Pattaya Bangkok Hospital told me. Plus: if you have been circumcised, you are less likely to contract STDs.

 

Re Thai Culture. Will reply in an hour or so.

Edited January 28, 2011 by Barrief

[Gary 4,119]

Some years ago, a neighbor lady was looking sick and thin. She was living with a farang. She died a few months later and my wife told me that she had died of an AIDS related sickness. Her farang boyfriend supposedly checked negative for HIV so if that was true, which I have no reason to doubt, it is difficult for a man to contract the dreaded condition.

 

That said, a sure way to ruin a great holiday is to contract a dose of the clap during your first few days in fun city. If you are any sort of decent guy, you will NOT infect anyone else. Being celibate in fun city for a couple of weeks is a REAL bummer, I know.