The demise of Pattaya

[joekicker 53]

Can you tell me what anyone from India or Russia can buy in grand central mall that they cant buy cheaper at home.

 

A very different and fun holiday in an exotic place of course.

 

.

[hillbilly 81]

if worl recession keeps going no one will have money to do anything anyway, sure its changing but go with the flow or dont bother

[gaijin 146]

Compared to whom?

 

Compared to the typical monger of course, who make up for the most money being pumped into the Pattaya economy.

 

 

Is that what you refer to as the local economy?

 

Yes, pretty much. Most non P4P visitors won't ever spend more than a few hundred dollars during their trip, and I would think many are turned off by what they see. There are many better places to visit in the world than Pattaya. Its main attraction is the girls and how easy it is to get one in bed.

 

 

Sure. All these 5* hotels and shopping malls are being built for the dontchas of this world. Not!

 

There is only 1 fancy shopping mall, and I don't think the 5* hotels are exactly filling up. Many places to stay for much cheaper and better value. Although I wouldn't mind staying a 5* hotels. I wouldn't mind paying the high rates for a few nights, but for a weeks is a whole different story.

 

On their 500 baht guesthouses and their 40 Baht draft beers. Stereotyping I know, but no more so than your "cheap people" reference.

 

I think some mongers pay up to 800 baht for their guesthouse and up to 65 baht draft beer. And then many more pay 1500 baht hotel room and 110 baht bottle beer. I'm one of "Cheap people" nationalities, Chinese American actually, but I spend much more than them because I come to monger.

 

 

Bad news for those that own a bar.

 

Its all about the location of the bar.

 

 

They're certainly competing for the same workspace.

 

The tourists don't really bother me much, except the hordes to dodge when they're crossing Beach Rd.

 

 

 

The trouble is that "back where they came from", there is another couple of billion waiting to replace them.

 

And those couple billion are dirt broke, many even poorer than Issan farmers. The visitors from the cheaper countries are already the elite of their country. The super elite of their country holiday elsewhere, first world countries in Europe. Rich women from China flood into expensive shops in France where they have to limit the amount of $5000 purses they can buy so they don't clean them out.

[jmike1 86]

I have to say that I dont think the current financial climate is the only reason westerners are staying away. TBH I considered not coming this year myself following my trip last november. Wall to wall Indian and Russian tourist, I sat one evening in a live music bar in walking street (sorry name escapes me, the band were pretty good, banging out the rock classics, the ruskie patrons had a liking for two particular song, Enter Sandman and Nothing else matters both Metalica tracks..now dont get me wrong I`m a DJ by calling/nature and do loads of bikers "do`s" and appreciate rock music, but I had to sit thru those two songs performed 4 times each in a little over an hour...the tip box was overflowing and as the saying goes "he that pays the piper calls the tune".

I also had a bit of a disagreement with an ignorant indian tourist, who had`nt quite grasped the concept of queing in line in the 7/11 anyway..he left the store a minute or so ahead of me but our paths crossed as he was browsing thru kiddie porn dvds at a stall along beach road..I could`nt help myself, and set about chastising this vile peado,his defence was that it was available so he would buy it. we had a further heated discusssion about supply and demand, culminating with him telling me to fuck off and mind my own business, I`m ashamed to say that I lost it and put him on his arse, thankfully no BIB around but the whole episode soured my trip.

In 3 weeks time I`m coming over for 2 weeks well earned break. I`ve opted to base myself in Naklua, yeah I know the german area, I can cope with them but I have to put up with Indians/Pakistani`s everyday at home in our "wonderful Multicultural society", I dont want them everywhere when I am on vacation.

No Offence intended.

 

It is my understanding that pornography of any sort is illegal in Thailand. I would think kiddie porn would be of extreme interest to the authorities. If you really feel that strongly about it, you should report it to the police.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Compared to the typical monger of course, who make up for the most money being pumped into the Pattaya economy.

 

 

I'll give you a hint. Take a trip up Pattaya Park Tower - or have a look at Google earth - and you might be able to identify the small part of Pattaya where mongers are of any importance.

 

 

Yes, pretty much. Most non P4P visitors won't ever spend more than a few hundred dollars during their trip, and I would think many are turned off by what they see.

 

And how do you reach that conclusion?

 

 

There are many better places to visit in the world than Pattaya. Its main attraction is the girls and how easy it is to get one in bed.

 

You mean its main attraction for you.

 

There is only 1 fancy shopping mall,

 

I believe MBK has already purchased the land for the next one.

 

and I don't think the 5* hotels are exactly filling up. Many places to stay for much cheaper and better value. Although I wouldn't mind staying a 5* hotels. I wouldn't mind paying the high rates for a few nights, but for a weeks is a whole different story.

 

Is that why all these international corporations insist on building them - because they don't fill up?

 

I think some mongers pay up to 800 baht for their guesthouse and up to 65 baht draft beer. And then many more pay 1500 baht hotel room and 110 baht bottle beer. I'm one of "Cheap people" nationalities, Chinese American actually, but I spend much more than them because I come to monger.

 

I would hazard a guess that you have no idea how much the folk staying at the Centara, Royal Cliff or Sheraton are spending. You seem to want to insist that all non-monger tourists are piss poor and the mongers are the ones with the cash.

 

Its all about the location of the bar.

 

Aye. Second Rd and Sois 1, 2, 3 and 4 seemed like a good idea 18 months ago.

 

The tourists don't really bother me much, except the hordes to dodge when they're crossing Beach Rd.

 

And those couple billion are dirt broke, many even poorer than Issan farmers.

 

You hope.

 

 

[joekicker 53]

if worl recession keeps going no one will have money to do anything anyway, sure its changing but go with the flow or dont bother chogdee

 

What "world" recession?

 

Compared to the typical monger of course, who make up for the most money being pumped into the Pattaya economy.

 

There may be, then, some other things you're not correct about.

 

Yes, pretty much. Most non P4P visitors won't ever spend more than a few hundred dollars during their trip, and I would think many are turned off by what they see. There are many better places to visit in the world than Pattaya. Its main attraction is the girls and how easy it is to get one in bed.

 

That is your personal view, to which you are entitled. Fact is that MOST visitors to Pattaya, even if you include P4P sex tourists, are not at all what you have decided they are.

 

There is only 1 fancy shopping mall, and I don't think the 5* hotels are exactly filling up. Many places to stay for much cheaper and better value. Although I wouldn't mind staying a 5* hotels. I wouldn't mind paying the high rates for a few nights, but for a weeks is a whole different story.

 

There is one mall, and therefore there will always be one mall. You think. But do you also think that the 5-star hotels are empty because you won't stay in them? Pattaya has had 5-star hotels since the mid-1980s. (Actually well before that, but the annual growth, let's say mid-1980s.) Every year since then, there have been more 5-star rooms than the year before. Your task, then, is to explain why this is so.

 

I think some mongers pay up to 800 baht for their guesthouse and up to 65 baht draft beer. And then many more pay 1500 baht hotel room and 110 baht bottle beer. I'm one of "Cheap people" nationalities, Chinese American actually, but I spend much more than them because I come to monger.

 

You know you spend more than the thousands who fill the 5-star hotel rooms. How do you know this?

 

And those couple billion are dirt broke, many even poorer than Issan farmers. The visitors from the cheaper countries are already the elite of their country. The super elite of their country holiday elsewhere, first world countries in Europe. Rich women from China flood into expensive shops in France where they have to limit the amount of $5000 purses they can buy so they don't clean them out.

 

What this has to do with having a holiday in Pattaya, I can't figure. Are you unaware of Chinese tourist numbers to Thailand, for example? Would you believe 125,000 a month now, and rising?

 

For example.

 

.

Edited September 10, 2011 by joekicker

[joekicker 53]

About this (cough)world recession(cough) allegation I just ran across this lovely news story on just how widespread the "world recession" is and who's involved in it:

 

nut grafs:

[T]he jittery state of the U.S. economy is driving an increasing number of its citizens to seek better prospects north of the border.

 

Americans are the latest economic refugees, and they’re heading to Canada.

 

... Americans make up the second-largest group of temporary workers in Canada, only behind Filipinos, most of whom work as nannies.

 

.

Edited September 10, 2011 by joekicker

[js007 795]

Even if Pattaya turns into the Monte Carlo of Asia no longer affordable to the average Joe, surely there'll always be someplace else. Some other up and coming "shit hole."

 

Personally, I don't care what kind of tourists Thailand has or where they come from, so long as I can still have fun at a reasonable price. And I don't suppose that'll change anytime soon. One can still find reasonably priced accommodations, and Thai foodd is still cheap. And 3000 baht a night for a nice go go girl is hardly exhorbitant.

 

In any event, I wonder what happens when the Euro finally is no more? Back to German Marks, French Francs, Italian Lira, etc. At that point, it won't be just the Americans with an exchange rate problem.

Edited September 10, 2011 by js007

[rightsaid 44]

Want a true representation of Pattaya and who comes here?

 

Go to Nong Nuch Gardens and go to the cultural show. Look around you and see how many "mongers" are there with their teerak and then look around and see how many "other" tourists there are.

 

You'll find the "monger" is outnumbered probably about 50 - 1.

[ramm 7]

Have not been to Pattaya for 4 yrs now..but is sounds as if the City is just getting a makeover like everyother city in the world gets at sometime..construction stimulates the economy.It's inevitable that prices will go North due to better facillities,despite it being a fucking shithole of a beach.That is i believe the conundrum of Pattaya..its a beach resort with a beach you cannot swim in...so there should be some leverage there for the paying tourist because its marketed as a beach resort????...no other country in the world would have the audacity to pull this stunt,would they?Im currently going out with a northern asian girl at the moment...those asian tourist groups u see there are the poorer type..none of her family have even heard of Pattaya...Pattaya is still so underground for the affluent western and asian tourist...it couldnt possibly rise to the success of Phuket or koh Samui...not with that poor excuse for a beach could it?

[yogi100 1,925]

What's a first world beach? Blackpool? Margate? Bournemouth?

 

There's more to the world than Blackpool and Margate! Those places ceased to be considered holiday resorts in the 60s and 70s, you get a few day trippers and weekenders but very few holiday makers. Beaches in the Med, the Costas, the Balearics, The Greek Islands, Florida, the Caribbean all knock spots off of Pattaya Beach with their crystal blue sea, immaculate beaches, lack of vendors and just as importantly they cater for families with their all inclusive deals. Pattaya will never capture this market.

 

American and European families might visit Pattaya one time but will not return because of the long and hugely expensive flights, the cloudy sea, third rate beach, rip off jetskis and continuous pestering by vendors. My friend and his girl friend who live in London have just booked an all inclusive deal in Crete, seven days for under 600 GBPs for both of them, that's all your flights, transfers, hotel with swimming pool, entertainment, grub, clean clear azure sea, and as much local brands of booze as you can imbibe included. The weak GBP against the Euro will not affect them.

 

I doubt many Russians ever come back after the novelty of Mike's shopping Mall and Walking Street has worn off. They too appreciate clean beaches and unpolluted sea to swim in. Olga and Boris like to relax on a beautiful beach and swim in clear waters before they return to Mother Russia and her savage winters.

 

In low season those fancy new shopping malls will be as deserted as they were last low season.

[Guest Belem]

Airfares might be cheaper than they ever have been

 

Nope. They were much cheaper years ago....at least from the US. Fuel prices are higher, and airlines are cutting flights in order to fill their planes. From the midwest US, I used to get R/T airfares to BKK for $800 which included taxes. Now the ticket costs around $1,200 including taxes. During SARS, had some friends fly to BKK from the US for $600 R/T. And my preferred frequent flyer program, Northwest Airlines, since they merged with Delta, the mileage redemption for a free ticket to Thailand was raised by 20,000 miles to 80,000 miles, up from 60,000 miles. Besides the lower baht exchange rates and western economies being down, I would say higher airfares are another reason why there are less mongers in Pattaya today.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Belem

[Guest Belem]

To say that Patts is NOT a shithole totally ignores the facts.

What other beach resort has a strong raw sewage smell when you walk down certain sois?

It isn't Cabo or Cozumel or any other place I've been. It may be getting more non-monger tourists, but that is only because they can't afford a first (or even second) world beach.

 

That said, it's still my favorite shithole. I love the temples and the culture....of young girls sucking my dick to send money home to mom (who taught her how)

 

The beaches at nearby Koh Larn are decent enough, and the ferries that go out there are full of Indians, Asians, Russians, etc.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Belem

[Guest Belem]

The girls will be here and the drinks will be here but they will cost more. And the people with less money will be gone just like in the rest of the world.

 

If the Cheap Charlies have to decamp (to the PI, maybe), then there goes your price resistance.

[LocalYokul 177]

 

What's a first world beach?  

 

Bondi

Manly

Venice, California

Malibu

Mykonos

Devonshire

Wasaga

[Guest Belem]

Maybe set up a New Pattaya close by.

 

Only P4P beach resorts that are a pale comparison to Pattaya are Mombassa, Kenya; Sihanoukville, Cambodia; Cartegena, Columbia; Vung Tau, Vietnam; Fortaleza, Brazil; Soshua, Dominican Republic; and the PI.

[CheshireTom 1,377]

There's more to the world than Blackpool and Margate! Those places ceased to be considered holiday resorts in the 60s and 70s, you get a few day trippers and weekenders but very few holiday makers. Beaches in the Med, the Costas, the Balearics, The Greek Islands, Florida, the Caribbean all knock spots off of Pattaya Beach with their crystal blue sea, immaculate beaches, lack of vendors and just as importantly they cater for families with their all inclusive deals. Pattaya will never capture this market.

 

I don't think anyone's suggested that they are actively pursuing the British "all-inclusive" punter. Unless of course, there are plans to open Butlins in Naklua.

 

 

 

American and European families might visit Pattaya one time but will not return because of the long and hugely expensive flights, the cloudy sea, third rate beach, rip off jetskis and continuous pestering by vendors. My friend and his girl friend who live in London have just booked an all inclusive deal in Crete, seven days for under 600 GBPs for both of them, that's all your flights, transfers, hotel with swimming pool, entertainment, grub, clean clear azure sea, and as much local brands of booze as you can imbibe included.

 

Unlike some folks in London, access to unlimited amounts of cheap local booze isn't really a priority for most folk planning a holiday.

 

The weak GBP against the Euro will not affect them.

 

It certainly won't affect the Indians, Chinese or Russians who are going to Pattaya either.

 

I doubt many Russians ever come back after the novelty of Mike's shopping Mall and Walking Street has worn off. They too appreciate clean beaches and unpolluted sea to swim in. Olga and Boris like to relax on a beautiful beach and swim in clear waters before they return to Mother Russia and her savage winters.

 

Unfortunately for Olga and Boris, it's a fucking long way from Vladivostock to Skegness. So they might just settle on Pattaya.

 

In low season those fancy new shopping malls will be as deserted as they were last low season.

 

Folk have been saying the same thing about the Royal Cliff for the last 35 years.

 

 

 

[Guest Belem]

Aye. Second Rd and Sois 1, 2, 3 and 4 seemed like a good idea 18 months ago.

 

 

Yep, and Soi 6, 7, and 8 will be gone(bars bulldozed) by 2013.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Belem

[losgrad 264]

Just a comment about beaches. Having lived in a beach city tourist area in Central California for 25 years, I find it interesting that some think that swimming in the sea is a high priority. Over those two decades plus near the CA beaches, I can count the number of times I went swimming in the salty and sandy ocean waters. Unless your boogie boarding or surfing, it's not as enjoyable to me as just lying near the water looking over the horizon, enjoying the ocean breezes, relaxing or reading a book. Now, I sit in an air-conditioned coffee shop looking through the palm trees over the ocean reading the newspapers or talking with other expats.

 

In CA, when my kids were young they did spend more time in the ocean water boogie boarding, but only for a few minutes at a time as although the air temperatures were in the 80's F. the water was chilly so they would wear wetsuits when they started surfing.

 

When my adult children are visiting me here in Pattaya and want to swim or have some beach time, we make a trip to Mike's Shopping Mall or Koh Larn island beach.

 

Yes, Pattaya is not perfect for everyone, but the total package and price is right for me at this time. Analyze and share your insights, criticize and reveal your preferences, enjoy and never regret.

Edited September 11, 2011 by losgrad

[joekicker 53]

Bondi

Manly

Venice, California

Malibu

Mykonos

Devonshire

Wasaga

 

Most of Jomtien. Koh Larn, Bang Saen, Phetchaburi/Cha-Am, (many in) Rayong, (many in) Phuket, Phi-Phi and of course Krabi, which makes the ones on your list look crappy.

 

Most of the hotels in north Pattaya/Naklua have access to beaches that make tourists happy as clams. And to tell the truth? MOST tourists are happy to sit on the crappy Pattaya main beach for a day, they have nothing at home that comes close - pollution and all. Give them the sun, the deck chair, the food delivery, and there's not a peep of complaint. It's easy to sneer at the guy sitting on a Pattaya beach deck chair until you see the poor slob who has to make do with Blackpool or Omaha, Nebraska for his holiday.

 

EXACTLY right losgrad - almost no one actually goes swimming.

 

.

Edited September 11, 2011 by joekicker

[jaxxon55 252]

Compared to the typical monger of course, who make up for the most money being pumped into the Pattaya economy.

 

 

 

 

Yes, pretty much. Most non P4P visitors won't ever spend more than a few hundred dollars during their trip, and I would think many are turned off by what they see. There are many better places to visit in the world than Pattaya. Its main attraction is the girls and how easy it is to get one in bed.

 

 

 

 

There is only 1 fancy shopping mall, and I don't think the 5* hotels are exactly filling up. Many places to stay for much cheaper and better value. Although I wouldn't mind staying a 5* hotels. I wouldn't mind paying the high rates for a few nights, but for a weeks is a whole different story.

 

 

 

I think some mongers pay up to 800 baht for their guesthouse and up to 65 baht draft beer. And then many more pay 1500 baht hotel room and 110 baht bottle beer. I'm one of "Cheap people" nationalities, Chinese American actually, but I spend much more than them because I come to monger.

 

 

 

 

Its all about the location of the bar.

 

 

 

 

The tourists don't really bother me much, except the hordes to dodge when they're crossing Beach Rd.

 

 

 

 

 

And those couple billion are dirt broke, many even poorer than Issan farmers. The visitors from the cheaper countries are already the elite of their country. The super elite of their country holiday elsewhere, first world countries in Europe. Rich women from China flood into expensive shops in France where they have to limit the amount of $5000 purses they can buy so they don't clean them out.

 

I think your reasoning is flawed and wonder how many times and for how long you have stayed in Pattaya.

Jack

[mike_asia 1]

must be the great beaches

[jaxxon55 252]

There's more to the world than Blackpool and Margate! Those places ceased to be considered holiday resorts in the 60s and 70s, you get a few day trippers and weekenders but very few holiday makers. Beaches in the Med, the Costas, the Balearics, The Greek Islands, Florida, the Caribbean all knock spots off of Pattaya Beach with their crystal blue sea, immaculate beaches, lack of vendors and just as importantly they cater for families with their all inclusive deals. Pattaya will never capture this market.

 

American and European families might visit Pattaya one time but will not return because of the long and hugely expensive flights, the cloudy sea, third rate beach, rip off jetskis and continuous pestering by vendors. My friend and his girl friend who live in London have just booked an all inclusive deal in Crete, seven days for under 600 GBPs for both of them, that's all your flights, transfers, hotel with swimming pool, entertainment, grub, clean clear azure sea, and as much local brands of booze as you can imbibe included. The weak GBP against the Euro will not affect them.

 

I doubt many Russians ever come back after the novelty of Mike's shopping Mall and Walking Street has worn off. They too appreciate clean beaches and unpolluted sea to swim in. Olga and Boris like to relax on a beautiful beach and swim in clear waters before they return to Mother Russia and her savage winters.

 

In low season those fancy new shopping malls will be as deserted as they were last low season.

 

It's low season now and the mall is filled with Russians buying high ticket items. I guess the street signs in Russian and the Russian t.v. station and magazines are for the one time Russian visitors and not the ones greedily buying the real estate. I think you and gaijin just have no clue.

Jack

[CheshireTom 1,377]

Most of Jomtien. Koh Larn, Bang Saen, Phetchaburi/Cha-Am, (many in) Rayong, (many in) Phuket, Phi-Phi and of course Krabi, which makes the ones on your list look crappy.

 

Most of the hotels in north Pattaya/Naklua have access to beaches that make tourists happy as clams. And to tell the truth? MOST tourists are happy to sit on the crappy Pattaya main beach for a day, they have nothing at home that comes close - pollution and all. Give them the sun, the deck chair, the food delivery, and there's not a peep of complaint. It's easy to sneer at the guy sitting on a Pattaya beach deck chair until you see the poor slob who has to make do with Blackpool or Omaha, Nebraska for his holiday.

 

And, this being Thailand, if you want your Pattaya Beach to be the one with soft white sand, clear blue seas, no high rise hotels/baht buses etc etc it's readily available. You just have to know where to look.

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2011 by CheshireTom

[Guest Belem]

It's low season now and the mall is filled with Russians buying high ticket items. I guess the street signs in Russian and the Russian t.v. station and magazines are for the one time Russian visitors and not the ones greedily buying the real estate. I think you and gaijin just have no clue.

Jack

 

Yep, Russians are buying a lot of condos and are he biggest customers at the first floor jewelry shops at the Central Festival. Utapao has charter flights everyday coming from Russia, and when I took Korean Airlines to BKK from Seoul, over half the flight had Russians from Vladivostok.