Fire and Stone Pizzeria on Pattaya Klang

[Evil Penevil 7,628]

Posted 06 November 2014 - 07:49 AM

Fire and Stone is new pizzeria on Pattaya Klang close to Beach Road.

It's a strong contender for the title of "Best Pizza in Town." It also offers a limited number of other classic Italian dishes, including appetizers, salads and pasta.

That's a good idea, as it's better to have a menu with a few dishes done well than a massive menu with many mediocre items.

It's a small, open-front restaurant that's been done up nicely.

The owners are very friendly and talk with the guests, which contributes to the pleasant ambiance. It's also good that you can see your food being prepared.

 

I had the pizza salsiccia as my main course.

 

 

It was done in the style I prefer: thin crust with a good char and a moderate amount of sauce and topping (Italian sausage and mozzarella).

 

 

 

 

My appetizer the night I ate alone- a selection of fine Italian cheeses. I just wish it had come with bread.

 

 

 

 

 

Very good spag bol at 267 baht. The sauce used proper Italian sausage and not minced beef.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2014 by Evil Penevil

[lanzalad 128]

Good stuff mate as always..

 

I'll be trying this place out my self

 

Thanks for the report

[Butch 3,456]

Thanks Evil,

I absolutely love a well made, stone baked Pizza as well as a nice selection of Italian meats, pure heaven to me. Definitely on my "to do" list in the future.

[Nightrider 340]

Cheers evil , it all looks very tempting........

[yorta2 693]

Wow! Pizza is coming of age in Patts. I've generally avoided it for years in Thailand, but your comments and pictures over the past year have renewed my appetite for Thailand pizza. Thanks, Mate.

[Dungheap 243]

Getting hungry Evil!

 

Thanks

[Gabor 296]

Ingredients of the 267 baht spaghetti probably worth 20 baht... nothing else, than the farang robbery. IMO.

[MM 6,562]

Ingredients of the 267 baht spaghetti probably worth 20 baht... nothing else, than the farang robbery. IMO.

 

Why are you so hung up on what things cost?

[Gabor 296]

 

Why are you so hung up on what things cost?

 

Conscious consumer I don't like when I was considered as a rip off material...just principal...Let see... my old example... a wonton soup costs 30 baht... when the wonton served separately, placed a little piece of dill on it and called " pelmeni " ( a russian food, similar to the wonton ) and sold for 150 baht....just because of the brain dead russians...what do you call it ?

Edited November 7, 2014 by Gabor

[MM 6,562]

 

Conscious consumer I don't like when I was considered as a rip off material...just principal...Let see... my old example... a wonton soup costs 30 baht... when the wonton served separately, placed a little piece of dill on it and called " pelmeni " ( a russian food, similar to the wonton ) and sold for 150 baht....just because of the brain dead russians...what do you call it ?

 

I call it being a niggardly troll.

 

Look, if you want to go by the cost of the ingredients, then cook it yourself at home.

 

No restaurant, even a Thai restaurant or street vendor, can afford to sell at the cost of the ingredients. That's just a simple-minded argument.

 

Get a grip..not everyone wants to eat Thai food for all their meals. Good Italian food made with imported, genuine ingredients is going to cost more than a bowl of wontons.

 

You're just looking for reactions.

 

You got one from me...let's hope no one else feeds this troll.

[Gabor 296]

 

 

Look, if you want to go by the cost of the ingredients, then cook it yourself at home.

 

No restaurant, even a Thai restaurant or street vendor, can afford to sell at the cost of the ingredients. That's just a simple-minded argument.

 

 

 

True.. and I cook myself at home, this is my hobby and I do it good...

 

Just a side note.... cooking a thai food not worth at home, buying the many ingredients, I will use only the half or less of them... cheaper to go to a restaurant...

 

Farang food: I will cook myself, not worth to pay the " farang factor "... probably only the full english breakfasts worth to order in the restaurants...only because of the competition...

 

See the differences: not a thai food... a full english breakfast ( 100-150 baht ) vs a lousy spaghetti uses not beef, but cheap sausages...and a miniature portion.. ( 267 baht )

Edited November 7, 2014 by Gabor

[MM 6,562]

 

True.. and I cook myself at home, this is my hobby and I do it good...

 

Just a side note.... cooking a thai food not worth at home, buying the many ingredients, I will use only the half or less of them... cheaper to go to a restaurant...

 

Farang food: I will cook myself, not worth to pay the " farang factor "... probably only the full english breakfasts worth to order in the restaurants...only because of the competition...

 

See the differences: not a thai food... a full english breakfast vs a lousy spaghetti uses not beef, but cheap sausages...and a miniature portion..

 

Uh, right.

 

Your opinion lodged and noted.

[BigDUSA 71]

Ingredients of the 267 baht spaghetti probably worth 20 baht... nothing else, than the farang robbery. IMO.

What do you consider a fair price for a bowl of spaghetti? I'm not talking about what it would cost to make in your kitchen.

[Gabor 296]

What do you consider a fair price for a bowl of spaghetti? I'm not talking about what it would cost to make in your kitchen.

 

70-80 baht... and still huge income...

 

Let see the details...

 

500 gram pasta enough for 7-8 portion like this : 60 baht

500 gram tomato paste enought for 8-12 portion is 50 baht

500 gram grounded beef enough for 5-6 portion is 50-60 baht ( not talking about the cheap sausages )

100 gram of parmesan enough for 10-15 portions is 120 baht

( basilic, oregano, marjoram ... no costs... 10 baht for 10 portion in Hungary )

garlic: 5 baht and you will not use the half...

Onion. 10 baht for 10 portion..

Oil: 1 baht / portion.

Gas / electricity: 1 baht / portion

Renting fee for the restaurant: A big question... probably the biggest fee the owner must to pay.... so you pay for the food the renting fee...not the food...

The staff: probably 10.000-15.000 baht / person... serve 3000 + food.. ( 2.5-3 baht / food )

 

ETC...,..but still not 267 baht for a lousy, samall portion spaghetti......

Edited November 7, 2014 by Gabor

[jacko 8,813]

 

70-80 baht... and still huge income...

 

Let see the details...

 

500 gram pasta enough for 7-8 portion like this : 60 baht

500 gram tomato paste enought for 8-12 portion is 50 baht

500 gram grounded beef enough for 5-6 portion is 50-60 baht ( not talking about the cheap sausages )

100 gram of parmesan enough for 10-15 portions is 120 baht

( basilic, oregano, marjoram ... no costs... 10 baht for 10 portion in Hungary )

garlic: 5 baht and you will not use the half...

Onion. 10 baht for 10 portion..

Oil: 1 baht / portion.

Gas / electricity: 1 baht / portion

Renting fee for the restaurant: A big question... probably the biggest fee the owner must to pay.... so you pay for the food the renting fee...not the food...

The staff: probably 10.000-15.000 baht / person... serve 3000 + food.. ( 2.5-3 baht / food )

 

ETC...,..but still not 267 baht for a lousy, samall portion spaghetti......

You have to get something into your head, perhaps a couple of somethings.

Restaurants are in the business to make money, profit is integral.

The price something is sold for has little to do with the cost of creation and supplying it, although that may be a bottom line. A price reflects what the market will bear, or what someone is prepared to pay for it. In a brand new place that may include some guesswork.

I agree the spaghetti portion doesn't look very big, but sometimes pasta is only one of the many courses.

I also prefer sausage, particularly Italian sausage in my pasta sauces, rather than minced beef (which would not suit most Thais).

 

A comment that you think it is expensive might be justified, but personally I doubt that would make me go shopping and return home rather than enjoy a meal out with no washing up to do. (If I attempt anything in the kitchen, I create more washing up mess than school dinners).

Chill out Gabor.

Edited November 8, 2014 by jacko

[yorta2 693]

So glad to see this restaurant using sausage in the spaghetti, instead of beef. This is the Italian way and, as Evil has stated, main ingredients are imported from Italy. Perhaps Hungarians are not aware of that fact - Italians will cook the Italian way, when using Italian ingredients (and NO, I am not Italian, but just respect their food culture).

[python 27]

For informationm, I am confident that when a wanna be chef first attends catering college, even in the first days in their chosen career, basic costings are taught.

 

From memory, a simple rule of thumb was that, in a restaurant, the cost of ingredients should not exceed 20% of the dishes selling price.

[Chang_paarp 253]

 

70-80 baht... and still huge income...

 

Let see the details...

 

500 gram pasta enough for 7-8 portion like this : 60 baht

500 gram tomato paste enought for 8-12 portion is 50 baht

500 gram grounded beef enough for 5-6 portion is 50-60 baht ( not talking about the cheap sausages )

100 gram of parmesan enough for 10-15 portions is 120 baht

( basilic, oregano, marjoram ... no costs... 10 baht for 10 portion in Hungary )

garlic: 5 baht and you will not use the half...

Onion. 10 baht for 10 portion..

Oil: 1 baht / portion.

Gas / electricity: 1 baht / portion

Renting fee for the restaurant: A big question... probably the biggest fee the owner must to pay.... so you pay for the food the renting fee...not the food...

The staff: probably 10.000-15.000 baht / person... serve 3000 + food.. ( 2.5-3 baht / food )

 

ETC...,..but still not 267 baht for a lousy, samall portion spaghetti......

 

A couple of things you have missed in your costing, the set-up costs of creating a venue, this includes key-money (a rip-off but sometimes a factor of doing business in some locations), the cost fit-out kitchen, décor, tables, seats, cutlery, in other words the initial investment to open the doors, these costs have to recouped through business activity.

 

You have also missed the ongoing costs of wastage, breakages, electricity and cleaning due to smokers (air con filters) and to a lesser extent non smokers. Another aspect that is hard to value is the experience and ambience of a venue, this can be hard to maintain in Thailand due to inconsistent staff standards.

 

Another overhead for a foreign business that is operating legally is the minimum wage the owner must be paid to obtain a work permit, this is something some chose to ignore but it has to addressed at some stage if they want to have the business as a saleable venture.The very rough starting point for pricing is 1/4 food, 1/4 labour, 1/4 overheads, 1/4 for the business. This is not the be all of pricing but a very basic starting point.

 

Using Thai businesses as an example is fraught with hazards as they tend to not use the same business practices to determine price, they tend to use the least expensive ingredients rather than the best quality, they often do not cost wages into their pricing as they use family, the ones that do use quality ingredients and modern business practices tend to be the more expensive one.

[Nightrider 340]

Ingredients of the 267 baht spaghetti probably worth 20 baht... nothing else, than the farang robbery. IMO.

 

Your just a moaning , groaning old fart Gabor.......Why don't you just take a chill pill and go with the flow.............

[Gabor 296]

So glad to see this restaurant using sausage in the spaghetti, instead of beef. This is the Italian way and, as Evil has stated, main ingredients are imported from Italy. Perhaps Hungarians are not aware of that fact - Italians will cook the Italian way, when using Italian ingredients (and NO, I am not Italian, but just respect their food culture).

 

You may like it, nothing wrong with this....But I dare to say, we... hungarians knows better the italian way of the cooking, being a few hours drive from Italy, not from 18 hours to fly from Australia.... Maybe you are fooled in Australia, as an example: the hungarian goulashes sold here in Pattaya.... a cheese omelet closer to the hungarian goulashes, than the food sold here in Pattaya under the same name...

 

 

 

Your just a moaning , groaning old fart Gabor.......Why don't you just take a chill pill and go with the flow.............

 

What is your problem ??? I just share my own opinion... OK, I know, many westeners would write bragging trip reports even from Guantanamo.. ( you make your holiday ) but I try to be sober and critical...no more, no less... not to insult you...

 

 

Using Thai businesses as an example is fraught with hazards as they tend to not use the same business practices to determine price, they tend to use the least expensive ingredients rather than the best quality, they often do not cost wages into their pricing as they use family, the ones that do use quality ingredients and modern business practices tend to be the more expensive one.

 

You raised some interesting facts, I can't argue....also agree, for some people the packaging is important, but not for me... and I know those people who wants the packaging are still valid...and right for their choice....So let forget the 50 bah duck noodle soup served with plenty ducks, veggies vs the 265 baht minimalistic spaghetti.... Compare the apples with the apples... the huge english breakfasts ( 100-150 baht ) including the imported black pudding, the quantity of the meat on the table with this one gulp sphagetti....for 265 baht...served in the same farang style restaurants...

Edited November 8, 2014 by Gabor

[Butch 3,456]

I call it being fucking ungrateful that a bloke takes his time to post a detailed report on quality food which some of us can afford and might enjoy, and all you can do is whinge about the price.

 

Hungary is hardly renown for it's excellent cuisine and quality food exports now, is it?. (I'm being flippant).

 

How can you accuse a portion of Spaghetti as being "lousy" when you haven't even been there or tried it?.

 

Gabor, even if you put a report up that I don't agree with, I respectfully thank you for it and don't then go picking the minute details apart for the areas I disagree with.

 

I use your report (and others) as a yardstick as to whether to visit the venue or not. Same here for Evil, upon his report I intend to visit the venue, regardless of how much you claim the food costs to produce (in which case, as you asked me earlier, please provide proof of the quality of the meat and costings) on the strength of his report I think it is something I & Mrs Butch will enjoy.

 

FWIW I hold the opinion of Evil very high respect when it comes to food . I'm not a fanboi, nor is he presently sucking my dick, but what he does know is how food should be cooked, presented and how it should taste.

 

Perhaps you should appreciate the time and effort others put into reports whether you agree or not before moaning that you can't afford to eat there.

 

FFS, to think I was even considering having a beer with you in the future.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Butch

[MeGoDanceNow 4,281]

This thread raises some interesting business opportunities.

 

A lot of the ingredients for Italian cuisine needs to be imported from Italy, but why is that? Tomatoes, peppers and olives grow just fine in Thailand. Cheese can surely be made here.

 

Maybe some enterprising soul could start producing these things locally, for the local market?

[Chang_paarp 253]

This thread raises some interesting business opportunities.

 

A lot of the ingredients for Italian cuisine needs to be imported from Italy, but why is that? Tomatoes, peppers and olives grow just fine in Thailand. Cheese can surely be made here.

 

Maybe some enterprising soul could start producing these things locally, for the local market?

 

This thread raises some interesting business opportunities.

 

A lot of the ingredients for Italian cuisine needs to be imported from Italy, but why is that? Tomatoes, peppers and olives grow just fine in Thailand. Cheese can surely be made here.

 

Maybe some enterprising soul could start producing these things locally, for the local market?

 

Cheese can be made in Thailand, but, dairy cattle tend to like a cooler climate than is common in most of Thailand. Green feed such as grass is important to them. Cheeses made from other animals such as goats sheep and even camels are not as common. There is a goat farm on the dark side that makes cheese but the costs involved makes it quite expensive.

 

Beef cattle can and do thrive in warmer climates, and there is a push throughout Asia to increase the heard numbers and quality of beef cattle to improve the availability of meat protein to that population, much to the chagrin of the live cattle exporters in Australia. Whilst beef cattle do make milk the quality and quantity is not up to that expected for commercial production of European style cheeses.

[MeGoDanceNow 4,281]

Chang Parp, thanks for that. Most enlightening.

[Evil Penevil 7,628]

To give some perspective: what we call spaghetti bolognese (spaghetti topped with a tomato-garlic-herb-ground beef sauce) isn't an authentic Italian dish in that it isn't served or eaten in Italy by Italian people. Traditionally, Italians don't put meat sauces on spaghetti but on other types of pasta because the sauce "clings" better to those forms of pasta (ribbon or ribbed) than to spaghetti. Spag bol was created by an Italian chef outside Italy as an adaptation to local tastes, preferences and availability of ingredients. It's similar to dishes like chicken tikka masala, chow mein, chop suey, chili con carne and various types of multi-topped pizza. All were invented by immigrant chefs serving customers not very familiar with the cuisine of the chef's home country.

 

There's a significant difference between southern and northern styles of Italian cooking. Spaghetti with tomato sauce belongs to the southern style, while northerners have preferred fresh pasta in ribbon form (basically what we would consider egg noodles) and sauces without such a pronounced tomato taste. There is a classic Italian sauce called "ragu alla bolognese," but it is very different to the spag bol sauce we mostly encounter. Also, the real Bolognese sauce is NEVER put on spaghetti, but on tagliatelle or a ribbed pasta like penne. .

 

Quite simply, spag bol is a southern Italian dish to which ground beef has been added as a nod to the culinary preferences of diners outside Italy. Calling it spaghetti bolognese is a misnomer and there's no such dish by that name in restaurants in Italy. (Possible exception- if a restaurant caters almost exclusively to foreign tourists, it might list spaghetti bolognese on its menu). Also worth noting that the name "spaghetti bolognese" isn't used much in North America. There it is referred to as "spaghetti with meat sauce" or just "spaghetti."

 

Regarding portion size: In Italy, pasta dishes are normally served as a "first course" between the appetizer (starter, antipasto) and the "second course" (main, entre). Spaghetti on its own, no matter what kind of sauce, is not often eaten as a main dish in Italy but it is common. for it to become the main course outside Italy.

 

In the end, though, it doesn't matter how "authentic" a dish is; it's the taste that is important. On that count, Fire and Stone is ahead of a lot of other restaurants.

 

Evil

Edited November 9, 2014 by Evil Penevil