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js007

JC and Immigration Rant

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 I assume some of you have noticed this video:

I think all of his points are valid.  Are Expats now unwelcome in Thailand?  Let's face it, no matter how you sugar coat it, it seems as though there is a concerted effort underway to rid Thailand of all the pesky Expats.  For example, the TM-30 requirements.  Why treat nice retirees like criminals?  Or the crazy financial requirements?  Most retirees just want to live in Thailand quietly and spend money.  They don't want to work.  What's wrong with that? And the medical insurance nonsense.  "Signed and stamped"?  Where, in the civilized world, do they "stamp" things these days?  I could go on.  

In any event, some countries actually welcome expats with money to spend.   

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I'll leave it at I don't watch You Tube rants.

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Philippines is one country that does. Very easy to stay long term with no immig hassles

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All countries will follow Thailands lead...... those already retired are the very lucky ones...... in ten years time retirement abroad will be impossible 

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1 hour ago, pinoydave said:

All countries will follow Thailands lead...... those already retired are the very lucky ones...... in ten years time retirement abroad will be impossible 

Interesting. Could you elaborate on that, please?

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16 hours ago, pinoydave said:

All countries will follow Thailands lead...... those already retired are the very lucky ones...... in ten years time retirement abroad will be impossible 

The RP won’t, they’re actively encouraging foreign investment and if anything making the visa regs easier. 1 year balikbayan visa on arrival if you ask nicely and tell them your girlfriend / fiancée will be arriving later or is waiting for you . Also your UK pension is index linked there and goes up every year, unlike Thailand (which is a UK Govt decision but still helps and encourages retirement there. It’s been getting progressively easier to settle there over the last 20 years or so , even for single western males.

Factor in the improving infrastructure and subdisvisions being built with foreign retirees in mind not only outside Manila towards the Tagaytay direction, but also in other provinces then if anything they will make it even easier to retire in then Philippines.

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1 hour ago, Butch said:

...  your UK pension is index linked there and goes up every year, unlike Thailand (which is a UK Govt decision but still helps and encourages retirement there.

Not sure I'd describe it quite as a "government decision".

The UK has a social security agreement with PI which provides for it (like most other SS agreements that the UK has entered into). Unfortunately, there's no SS agreement between the UK and Thailand.

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23 hours ago, pinoydave said:

All countries will follow Thailands lead...... those already retired are the very lucky ones...... in ten years time retirement abroad will be impossible 

I don't agree.  Many countries really do want retirees and their money.  Why not?  They usually don't want to work, usually don't cause much trouble, and usually have a reliable source of income.  And yet Thailand seems to be on a path to actively prevent retirees from living there.  

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7 hours ago, Bazle said:

Not sure I'd describe it quite as a "government decision".

The UK has a social security agreement with PI which provides for it (like most other SS agreements that the UK has entered into). Unfortunately, there's no SS agreement between the UK and Thailand.

Oh, sorry, to be honest Bazle that was the impression I was under, (albeit misinformed - sorry). Maybe it's more "policy" than an actual decision then. Either way, getting your pension index linked in the RP must be a bonus over not getting in in LOS. An extra tenner or so a month goes a fair way.

Then again, my state pension age is scheduled at 67, by the time I reach that it'll probably be higher, or maybe even nothing at all.

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On 12/15/2019 at 1:07 AM, Butch said:

Then again, my state pension age is scheduled at 67, by the time I reach that it'll probably be higher, or maybe even nothing at all

I don't think it will get higher, it has already been moved up from 65. People younger than yourself will  have a higher age. There is a lot of fuss in the UK,which was an election tool too, with respect to women's pensions, which had to move up from 60 to be equal to that of men. The added complexity was women never got their stamps themselves but accrued according to their husbands many years ago. Now there is a gap where women will have retired and yet not receive their state pension, an awkward transition. Equality has it's drawbacks. The OP rant was also posted on Thai Visa, I see no point to such posts. If they are informative, and correct in their details, they are useful. This is whingeing, I don't see it being helpful. 

Does Thailand want retirees, yes, on their terms. If they bring money and never become a burden they will be accepted. But there are rather a lot of them who survive, but have no resources for their own healthcare. Just lost another friend here to the big C.... you would need substantial savings to go through it here. 

Edited by jacko

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48 minutes ago, jacko said:

I don't think it will get higher, it has already been moved up from 65. People younger than yourself will  have a higher age. There is a lot of fuss in the UK,which was an election tool too, with respect to women's pensions, which had to move up from 60 to be equal to that of men. The added complexity was women never got their stamps themselves but accrued according to their husbands many ears ago. Now there is a gap where women will have retired and yet not receive their state pension, an awkward transition. Equality has it's drawbacks. The OP rant was also posted on Thai Visa, I see no point to such posts. If they are informative, and correct in their details, they are useful. This is whingeing, I don't see it being helpful. 

Does Thailand want retirees, yes, on their terms. If they bring money and never become a burden they will be accepted. But there are rather a lot of them who survive, but have no resources for their own healthcare. Just lost another friend here to the big C.... you would need substantial savings to go through it here. 

For anyone with a serious medical problem.  Why not just hop on a plane a go back home?  It isn't that hard.

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32 minutes ago, js007 said:

For anyone with a serious medical problem.  Why not just hop on a plane a go back home?  It isn't that hard.

It might be very hard if it’s a serious medical problem.

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36 minutes ago, js007 said:

For anyone with a serious medical problem.  Why not just hop on a plane a go back home?  It isn't that hard.

For what reason, to die alone away from your home and wife? My latest loss chose to come back here. 

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28 minutes ago, RhinoTusk said:

I wasted 15 minutes of my life by watching this silly video.  Rant over.

I don't think it's silly.  Some real issues.  Does Thailand want retirees, or not?  If not, they should say so.  

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21 hours ago, js007 said:

I don't think it's silly.  Some real issues.  Does Thailand want retirees, or not?  If not, they should say so.  

They offer a retirement extension,  and "retirement' visas, so I feel the answer is yes.

The subsequent treatment of them is beginning to seem inhospitable. 

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Just a drop in the bucket but my Real Estate company whom i am very happy with is familiar with these inhospitable changes.  I cancelled a condo purchase . Am moving from Wong Amat to Jomtien saving me 120,000 in rent per year in anticipation of buying a useless insurance policy or using an agent.  My net cost will be zero.  I love Thailand and have no immediate plans to leave. But i am looking at options.

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When faced with the prospect of having to buy an overpriced, poor coverage insurance policy, using an agent becomes a no brainer, IMHO.

Just read a report on another forum about a BM's recent experience getting an extension to stay. For the most part it was painless and easy as he had all the required documents, copies and photos. The part that was different is the office is swamped, so they're limiting extensions to stay to 50 in the morning and 50 in the afternoon. To avoid a long wait, you'll need to go early to get a number, then guesstimate based on the number you're given when to come back. I'm not a big fan of making an extra trip from central Pattaya to Jomtien for the sole reason to get a number, then having to guess when I should come back, and then wait again for my number to be called. Another reason it was worth it to use an agent this year for the first time in ten years living here.

 

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I got my 9th extension last month, at Chaengwattana.  Sure, I had to get a number, went downstairs and had some lunch.  I was there 6 hours, had blisters on my feet the next day for wearing shoes.  They never said anything about insurance and I don’t have to file a TM 30 unless I leave the country, which I haven’t done since 2011.  I have to do this one day a year.  Is this a major problem?

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47 minutes ago, RhinoTusk said:

I got my 9th extension last month, at Chaengwattana.  Sure, I had to get a number, went downstairs and had some lunch.  I was there 6 hours, had blisters on my feet the next day for wearing shoes.  They never said anything about insurance and I don’t have to file a TM 30 unless I leave the country, which I haven’t done since 2011.  I have to do this one day a year.  Is this a major problem?

Can you loan out your shoes

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3 hours ago, VPI78 said:

Can you loan out your shoes

size 12?

 

btw, my shoes are Allen-Edmonds and I’ve had them for 35 years. Every US president from Reagan until Obama wore Allen-Edmonds to their inauguration.  The company created a special model named after Obama’s Chicago neighborhood but still couldn’t win him over as a customer.  He never spoke publicly about it.  I have no idea what Trump wears.
 

They cost about $450 but last a lifetime, don’t know how many times I’ve had them re-souled.

Edited by RhinoTusk

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I did my Extension just recently, 2nd Dec when it was not due until 26th. I would be an idiot to leave it later, it gets real busy at the end of the year. Although as Atlas 2 reported, Dec 25th is a pretty good day to do it. Just don't like leaving things until the last minute. I didn't have to go early, for immigration opening,  never have done. Waited 20 minutes with 4-5 ahead of me. 

Why people are banging on about the insurance policy I don't grasp, dump the Non-Imm-OA Permission to Stay. Shelling out good money for a crap insurance policy makes no sense whatsoever. Older guys are really going to get stung. Not sure agents can bypass that requirement yet, so do it yourself. 

Got a long looking wait in Soi 5, try the next street, soi 6.

Edited by jacko

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On the already mentioned subject of index-linked pensions for expats, this is discrimination and a scandal. Linked in the Philippes but not in Thailand, in the USA but not in Canada. This has been UK government policy since 1945, followed by all governments since. Nobody can explain why any bilateral agreements between governments should be needed to implement index-linking. If you're entitled, the government should pay you wherever you are, it's nobody else's business and it should be your free choice to live where you like after 40-odd years of work and contributions.

Somebody took the UK government to the European Court of Justice (ECJ) for this discrimination a few years ago, and lost his case. The government's argument was simple and cold-blooded: a) index-linking for expats is not a legal requirement, and b) they didn't want to spend the money. No mention of a moral imperative to look after pensioners abroad who have contributed just as much, are no burden on the health service or social services. Most importantly, they can't vote in UK elections and are therefore irrelevant to politicians.

It's a disgrace - to my knowledge no other country does this to its pensioners living abroad, or in some countries but not others.  

Edited by Bushcraft

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On 12/15/2019 at 6:24 AM, js007 said:

For anyone with a serious medical problem.  Why not just hop on a plane a go back home?  It isn't that hard.

We know someone who has just gone back to the UK with kidney problems (he does not drink) and as soon as he told them he'd been living in Thailand they informed him that they would be expecting him to pay for his treatment.

He was a London bus driver who had taken an early retirement package to come and live in Pattaya six years ago after having paid into the UK welfare system all his working life.

He has no property, not much money and had only been in his company pension scheme for eleven years.

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