Boeing 777X In Trouble

[Gottsy 46]

Is the FAA just trying to make up for its past cockups by being hardline or are they just doing their Job? whatever ,Boeing is in the shit again

 

[Shooter 736]

I am no apologist for Boeing.  They screwed up the 737MAX big time. 

I am also skeptical of the source for this.  A quick search returned:

Maximus Aviation L.L.C is a Nevada Domestic Limited-Liability Company filed On March 27, 2009. The company's filing status is listed as Permanently Revoked (4/1/2017) and its File Number is E0159782009-5. The Registered Agent on file for this company is Maximus Aviation L.L.C C/O Thomas M. Jackson, President and is located at 10142 Via Como, Reno, NV 89511. The company's mailing address is 10142 Via Como, Reno, NV 90511. The company has 1 principal on record. The principal is Thomas Matthew Jackson from Reno NV. Before I would consider this video a valid representation of what is happening with the 777MAX I would need to know more about Maximus Aviation and it's sources of revenue.

[TheFiend 1,176]

Boeing is in a big mess and it's all down to the bean counters in charge wanting to putting profit before everything else like product quality and safety.....

It's now 10 years since the 777X program was announced and despite already having 18 months of flight testing for the FAA to delay type certification flights until 2023 shows they are not happy with what Boeing is doing....

787 deliveries are also being delayed due to production quality issues...

[TheFiend 1,176]

5 hours ago, Shooter said:

I am no apologist for Boeing.  They screwed up the 737MAX big time. 

I am also skeptical of the source for this.  A quick search returned:

Maximus Aviation L.L.C is a Nevada Domestic Limited-Liability Company filed On March 27, 2009. The company's filing status is listed as Permanently Revoked (4/1/2017) and its File Number is E0159782009-5. The Registered Agent on file for this company is Maximus Aviation L.L.C C/O Thomas M. Jackson, President and is located at 10142 Via Como, Reno, NV 89511. The company's mailing address is 10142 Via Como, Reno, NV 90511. The company has 1 principal on record. The principal is Thomas Matthew Jackson from Reno NV. Before I would consider this video a valid representation of what is happening with the 777MAX I would need to know more about Maximus Aviation and it's sources of revenue.

If you check out the youtube channel it come up with the following contact info:-

 

For Business Inquiries Email: aviationmaximus@gmail.com

Offices: 7918 El Cajon Blvd

Suite N345

La Mesa,

CA 91942

[Gottsy 46]

21 hours ago, Shooter said:

I am no apologist for Boeing.  They screwed up the 737MAX big time. 

I am also skeptical of the source for this.  A quick search returned:

 

Maybe these reports might convince you??

https://simpleflying.com/boeing-777x-certification-delays/

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeing-777x-realistically-will-not-win-certification-approval-before-mid-2023-us-2021-06-27/

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/trouble-for-boeing-777x/

https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/06/27/boeing-777x-certification-delayed-to-2023-after-faa-notification/

https://onemileatatime.com/news/boeing-777x-certification-issues/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/28/business/boeing-777x-delays-faa.html

 

[Shooter 736]

9 hours ago, Gottsy said:

Maybe these reports might convince you??

https://simpleflying.com/boeing-777x-certification-delays/

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeing-777x-realistically-will-not-win-certification-approval-before-mid-2023-us-2021-06-27/

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/trouble-for-boeing-777x/

https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/06/27/boeing-777x-certification-delayed-to-2023-after-faa-notification/

https://onemileatatime.com/news/boeing-777x-certification-issues/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/28/business/boeing-777x-delays-faa.html

 

I don't really need convincing of anything as I don't have a formed opinion either way.  I am just always skeptical of youtube memes from unknown sources that might have an ulterior motive.  I am short of time right now just home from golf, eating and due to get to the scotch and cigars night with the boys so I'll have to get back to this tomorrow soonest to see if Boeings screwed the pooch again.  Thanks for the links.

 

[midlifecrisis 4,003]

On 7/14/2021 at 5:08 PM, Shooter said:

I don't really need convincing of anything as I don't have a formed opinion either way.  I am just always skeptical of youtube memes from unknown sources that might have an ulterior motive.  I am short of time right now just home from golf, eating and due to get to the scotch and cigars night with the boys so I'll have to get back to this tomorrow soonest to see if Boeings screwed the pooch again.  Thanks for the links.

 

Mainstream news sources are reporting issues with the nose section.

[sailingbill 913]

On 7/13/2021 at 11:57 PM, Shooter said:

I am no apologist for Boeing.  They screwed up the 737MAX big time. 

I am also skeptical of the source for this.  A quick search returned:

Maximus Aviation L.L.C is a Nevada Domestic Limited-Liability Company filed On March 27, 2009. The company's filing status is listed as Permanently Revoked (4/1/2017) and its File Number is E0159782009-5. The Registered Agent on file for this company is Maximus Aviation L.L.C C/O Thomas M. Jackson, President and is located at 10142 Via Como, Reno, NV 89511. The company's mailing address is 10142 Via Como, Reno, NV 90511. The company has 1 principal on record. The principal is Thomas Matthew Jackson from Reno NV. Before I would consider this video a valid representation of what is happening with the 777MAX I would need to know more about Maximus Aviation and it's sources of revenue.

I do agree. I fly long haul and even if it goes tits up i want to be on a Boeing plane. Those pilots who flew into the seawall at SfO because the ILS system was down and they last time they hand flew a plane was a 152 were saved by Boeing engineering.

[Pine Tree 241]

I hesitated to post here, as its not really a matter for disclosure on a forum,  but here goes. I have over 8,000 hours on the B777- 200 and 300 ER. Boeings are very nice aircraft to fly, understandable ( as opposed to Airbus) and relatively easy to fly.  I used to say to my colleagues that I could teach my Grandmother to fly a B777 in no time at all. I am retired now of course, but it is apparent  to me, and to the airline pilot community as a whole,  that Boeing have lost the plot and lost their soul, aided in great part by the incompetence of the FAA,  something that is not only saddening, but potential catastrophic for the airline industry. The B737Max is the tip of the iceberg in my view and I for one would not fly on it. No need to go into the reasons here.  I'm sure that many of you have read the reports on the inherent design flaws of that aircraft, which are still not resolved and cannot be with that design.  You just cannot overcome basic design errors with  a computer patch. The B777X, in concept, is a great step forward, but it seems from reports that it is suffering from the same kind of design failures that can come about when the basic aircraft design is stretched technologically, beyond what is reasonable, stable and safe, something Airbus have not contemplated .   Boeing appear to have overlooked or ignored the basic aircraft design concept , that the aircraft should be inherently stable in all known configurations within its flying envelope.  Leave inherent instability to fighter aircraft, not airliners. Ignore this basic or all  rules and you risk what happened to the Max. 

[TheFiend 1,176]

5 hours ago, sailingbill said:

I do agree. I fly long haul and even if it goes tits up i want to be on a Boeing plane. Those pilots who flew into the seawall at SfO because the ILS system was down and they last time they hand flew a plane was a 152 were saved by Boeing engineering.

But what about the 346 deaths caused by Boeing developing the 737 MAX instead of starting from scratch with a new single aisle aircraft? Boeing had to act in response to the Airbus NEO'ing the A320 series. The 737MAX was the cheap option and the attractive one for the bean counters in charge, only caring about profit and shareholders dividends.

The original 737 design used much smaller diameter engines.... it wasn't designed to use bigger engines and mounting the engines forward of the wings introduced instability into the design. The height of the landing gear limited the size of the engines when mounted underneath the wing. ....  Yes engineers came up with a solution, but that solution was flawed

[Shooter 736]

Interesting and sad thread.  If Boeing screws the pooch again we the traveling public suffer along with them.  Years ago when Airbus had issues I pointed out it is in the public's best interest to have 2 competing companies making jets.  Finally the 380 was released and now we have a wonderful wide body jet in service albeit in limited routes.  If Boeing makes another 737MAX error it will set aviation development back.  And with the pandemic they can ill afford this mess.

Really sad to read from a pilot of 777s that this might be as bad as reports say.  Or that the FAA isn't as solid as we like to believe.  Every time we step on a jet we place our lives in the hands of 1000s of people involved in the flying process.  We need that trust. 

[TheFiend 1,176]

1 hour ago, Pine Tree said:

I hesitated to post here, as its not really a matter for disclosure on a forum,  but here goes. I have over 8,000 hours on the B777- 200 and 300 ER. Boeings are very nice aircraft to fly, understandable ( as opposed to Airbus) and relatively easy to fly.  I used to say to my colleagues that I could teach my Grandmother to fly a B777 in no time at all. I am retired now of course, but it is apparent  to me, and to the airline pilot community as a whole,  that Boeing have lost the plot and lost their soul, aided in great part by the incompetence of the FAA,  something that is not only saddening, but potential catastrophic for the airline industry. The B737Max is the tip of the iceberg in my view and I for one would not fly on it. No need to go into the reasons here.  I'm sure that many of you have read the reports on the inherent design flaws of that aircraft, which are still not resolved and cannot be with that design.  You just cannot overcome basic design errors with  a computer patch. The B777X, in concept, is a great step forward, but it seems from reports that it is suffering from the same kind of design failures that can come about when the basic aircraft design is stretched technologically, beyond what is reasonable, stable and safe, something Airbus have not contemplated .   Boeing appear to have overlooked or ignored the basic aircraft design concept , that the aircraft should be inherently stable in all known configurations within its flying envelope.  Leave inherent instability to fighter aircraft, not airliners. Ignore this basic or all  rules and you risk what happened to the Max. 

Thanks for posting this.

I've had many flights on 777's..... I've even managed to fly on Thai Airways 772's 773's and 77W's domestically between BKK and CNX,. I'll admit I do prefer flying Airbus wide-bodies long haul because I find them quieter.... My favourite? The A340-600, sadly an aircraft that became a victim of the 77W success story.

[sailingbill 913]

3 hours ago, TheFiend said:

But what about the 346 deaths caused by Boeing developing the 737 MAX instead of starting from scratch with a new single aisle aircraft? Boeing had to act in response to the Airbus NEO'ing the A320 series. The 737MAX was the cheap option and the attractive one for the bean counters in charge, only caring about profit and shareholders dividends.

The original 737 design used much smaller diameter engines.... it wasn't designed to use bigger engines and mounting the engines forward of the wings introduced instability into the design. The height of the landing gear limitej the size of the engines when mounted underneath the wing. ....  Yes engineers came up with a solution, but that solution was flawed

No disagreement from me. My son is an Engineer and needs 3 PE to sign off on project. I expected many more for a plane.The Max is a disgrace to Boeing.

[Shooter 736]

5 hours ago, TheFiend said:

Thanks for posting this.

I've had many flights on 777's..... I've even managed to fly on Thai Airways 772's 773's and 77W's domestically between BKK and CNX,. I'll admit I do prefer flying Airbus wide-bodies long haul because I find them quieter.... My favourite? The A340-600, sadly an aircraft that became a victim of the 77W success story.

My favorite jet to fly is the 380.  Smoother, quieter, air seems fresher.  I have only flown in the upper deck biz class with I think Asiana though so not a large sample size.  Bummer they will stop making them soon. 

I was always the optimist that having both Boeing and Airbus would spur both to higher levels of creativity and development.  Maybe it's just really hard to get it right and be competitive. 

[midlifecrisis 4,003]

4 hours ago, sailingbill said:

No disagreement from me. My son is an Engineer and needs 3 PE to sign off on project. I expected many more for a plane.The Max is a disgrace to Boeing.

Not meaning to get political but a major issue with the Max was that government regulators allowed Boeing to be their own inspectors. The fox was allowed to guard the chicken coop. Corporations will almost always act in their own self interest.

[TheFiend 1,176]

39 minutes ago, Shooter said:

My favorite jet to fly is the 380.  Smoother, quieter, air seems fresher.  I have only flown in the upper deck biz class with I think Asiana though so not a large sample size.  Bummer they will stop making them soon. 

I was always the optimist that having both Boeing and Airbus would spur both to higher levels of creativity and development.  Maybe it's just really hard to get it right and be competitive. 

The final A380 has already been built and flown but has not yet been delivered.... Sad because a huge majority of passengers that have flown it loved flying on it.

I've flown both upstairs and down stairs and loved it....

[Shooter 736]

3 hours ago, TheFiend said:

The final A380 has already been built and flown but has not yet been delivered.... Sad because a huge majority of passengers that have flown it loved flying on it.

I've flown both upstairs and down stairs and loved it....

I think there simply wasn't enough need for a jet that large.  Pity.  Built a great jet but missed the mark on demand.

I am hopeful that the Dreamliner shares some of the characteristics of the 380 like nicer air quality and smooth ride.  Problem I have with that is the airlines that fly the routes I would fly it aren't kitting out the interior as nice as I would prefer for BIZ class.  Not clear to me how tight the seats on JAL are.  But real research won't begin again until I can see light at the end of the tunnel re returning to Pattaya.

 

 

[TheFiend 1,176]

6 hours ago, Shooter said:

I think there simply wasn't enough need for a jet that large.  Pity.  Built a great jet but missed the mark on demand.

I am hopeful that the Dreamliner shares some of the characteristics of the 380 like nicer air quality and smooth ride.  Problem I have with that is the airlines that fly the routes I would fly it aren't kitting out the interior as nice as I would prefer for BIZ class.  Not clear to me how tight the seats on JAL are.  But real research won't begin again until I can see light at the end of the tunnel re returning to Pattaya.

 

 

Pre-pandemic the A380 was a very useful aircraft for high demand routes to and from slot restricted airports like London Heathrow.

[tallguy 1,414]

2 hours ago, TheFiend said:

Pre-pandemic the A380 was a very useful aircraft for high demand routes to and from slot restricted airports like London Heathrow.

I think even before the pandemic the 380 was a bit of a white elephant from the airlines' point of view. A lot of them were starting to look at point to point aircraft rather than using hubs. The 2008 financial crisis probably signalled the beginning of the end for the 380.

I watched a YouTube video the other day where the CEO of Qatar basically said that the fuel costs compared to more recent aircraft made the 380 unviable.

However, as a customer, the 380 is the best aircraft I have ever flown on, especially in business class.?

[Pine Tree 241]

9 minutes ago, tallguy said:

I think even before the pandemic the 380 was a bit of a white elephant from the airlines' point of view. A lot of them were starting to look at point to point aircraft rather than using hubs. The 2008 financial crisis probably signalled the beginning of the end for the 380.

I watched a YouTube video the other day where the CEO of Qatar basically said that the fuel costs compared to more recent aircraft made the 380 unviable.

However, as a customer, the 380 is the best aircraft I have ever flown on, especially in business class.?

Why as an airline would you purchase a four engine aircraft , when you can provide the same or better service,  more profitably,  using aircraft with 2.  It never made any real sense once the NEOs came onto the scene and ETOPS became a common reality.  Of course hindsight is  a wonderful thing, but that's why you pay the big bucks to the manufacturing executives.  They got a bit carried away with their own propaganda, having done the same with the A340.  The A350 redresses the failures by Airbus and should be ( is already?) a big success. 

[Barhop 197]

44 minutes ago, Pine Tree said:

Why as an airline would you purchase a four engine aircraft , when you can provide the same or better service,  more profitably,  using aircraft with 2.  It never made any real sense once the NEOs came onto the scene and ETOPS became a common reality.  Of course hindsight is  a wonderful thing, but that's why you pay the big bucks to the manufacturing executives.  They got a bit carried away with their own propaganda, having done the same with the A340.  The A350 redresses the failures by Airbus and should be ( is already?) a big success. 

Had started using the A350 with SIA a few times until covid stopped that abruptly.  Very nice plane...

[TheFiend 1,176]

Another problem for Boeing....

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/a-new-787-dreamliner-manufacturing-flaw-will-prolong-boeing-delivery-halt/

Quote

While inspecting and reworking undelivered 787 Dreamliners for the flaws at fuselage joins that emerged last year, Boeing has discovered a new manufacturing quality problem with a key structural part in the nose of the aircraft.

In yet another serious setback as Boeing struggles to recover from the pandemic’s impact on production, its engineers have now found unacceptably large gaps around the forward pressure bulkhead.

This is a hefty, dome-shaped structural barrier forward of the pilot instrument panel that’s crucial to maintaining air pressure within the cockpit and passenger cabin.

 

[Gary 4,078]

I no longer fly international and only fly domestic once in a while. I always searched for the cheapest ticket and whatever model plane they used was OK with me. I have no brand loyalty regarding airline or airliner.

[Shooter 736]

8 hours ago, Gary said:

I no longer fly international and only fly domestic once in a while. I always searched for the cheapest ticket and whatever model plane they used was OK with me. I have no brand loyalty regarding airline or airliner.

I have no brand loyalty but I admit which jet they fly matters to me.  But it only applies to international travel for me since I rarely fly domestically any longer. 

I kind of have a preference for what jet I fly and it all other things are equal will take a 380 over anything else.  Smoother, quieter and better air than the 777 or 350 in my experience.  I am also curious about the 787 which I have not flown.  It too is supposed to be quieter and smoother and better air.  But so far all the 787s on routes I might fly have opted for poor seating in the biz class section.  JAL seats appear on the small side.

After those it is a crap shoot.  777 or 350 it's all the same to me.  January I'll be in a Qatar 350-1000 in Qsuite for the first time.  I hear it is nice and since you can close off from everyone else masks are not required once airborne if you raise the barriers for privacy.

 

[yselmike 360]

They have just arrested a Boeing test pilot who worked on the 737 max! Falsifying data or some such shenanigans.