Am I retarded?

[Mirkwood 342]

I don't know if I'm a retard or I did the right thing.

 

About a year ago, I saw the new condo block going up in Soi Wongamat.

 

I love it up there big time. I went in sales office and asked about a studio and they had only sold 3 on 7th top floor. I could have had a cracker on 6th floor with sea view etc.

 

Trouble was they were expensive at 3,500000 for only 48m.

 

I bottled out as I'm scared of prices and Thai rules at the moment.

 

Today I find out they have sold all except 4 of the poxy ones out the back.

 

 

Have I missed out on a mega investment?

 

Or do you think I did right thing?

 

 

I'm interested in what you expats think.

[BigDUSA 71]

I'm not an expat (yet) but IMHO it's a lot of money for a small room. I plan on renting a three bedroom, two bath house and I expect to pay around 20 to 25K per month. I'll be on the other side of Sukimvit (s)Road but with a motor bike, I'll get around. Maybe.

[jacko 8,827]

Hindsight... wonderful to be looking at your own ass!

 

Who knows, I think condos are overpriced, suitable for short visits but not for 'living' in. 48 sq/m is a 7m box.

 

I know someone who has shelled out a lot of money for a condo which looks like it is never going to be finished.. it's a crap shoot.

[casper_uk 12]

3.5m for a 48sqm condo or the same for a 3 bedroom 200sqm house near the lake, Siam Country Club, Horseshoe Point etc.

 

Is Pattaya really all about bars then staggering back to the closest bed? I guess that the prices say it is so.

[kev0184 12]

i think you did the right thing, my condo is 96sm and havind been there 6months and bought a load of stuff it now isnt big enough, 48sm is tiny!!! luckly i rented this one, as wanted to stay a yr to make sure i still liked the place, come december i will be looking over 3rd at some houses, 2/3 bedders are around 20/25k a month for a top notch one.

[Bullfrog 2,224]

Hi Mirky / Kev,

 

Yep that does seem very expensive. I am buying two studios (40 sqm) side by side on the 5th floor of Nova Mirage at Wongamat and they are only around 1.4m each off plan and in farang name...although only empty shells.

 

They are due to be finished in September and I will decide what to do with them end of the year. I might keep one + rent/sell one or knock through for a double unit. Either way I will only be using them for weekend visits from KPPT so 40 sqm is fine for me....

[Obsession 571]

I think you done the right thing. Too much uncertainty and I personally think any small condo over a 1 million baht is overpriced.

[sabang 0]

Time will tell, and do not invest here what you cannot afford to lose.

 

Pattaya however enjoys one of the highest population growth rates of any city in Asia, is close to the new Airport with a new motorway being completed with typical Thai urgency (?), and a new high speed railway linking Bkk/airport/Pattaya mooted.

 

My opinion is that it is a good real estate investment. What does, say, $250K buy you here compared to where you come from. But cash and patience required. And I could be wrong.

[laffnliv 78]

And remember that when you buy you are just getting a shell. No kitchen. No furniture and stuff. Best to buy on a re-sale when you get see what you get and also get any idea as to how small/large it is by seeing furniture in it.

 

Having said that, I have had my relatively small condo for almost 5 years now and love it. And I don't have or need a car or motorbike due to the great location. Life is gooood!

 

Little Roy

[Bullfrog 2,224]

Hi Mirky / Kev,

 

Yep that does seem very expensive. I am buying two studios (40 sqm) side by side on the 5th floor of Nova Mirage at Wongamat and they are only around 1.4m each off plan and in farang name...although only empty shells.

 

They are due to be finished in September and I will decide what to do with them end of the year. I might keep one + rent/sell one or knock through for a double unit. Either way I will only be using them for weekend visits from KPPT so 40 sqm is fine for me....

 

Bullfrog...you wanker....sober up man.. they are 44 sqm not 40 sqm...this equates to 32,000 per sqm...

[HILLY 9]

Behave Dave.LOL

[bangkapiboy 5]

Time will tell, and do not invest here what you cannot afford to lose.

 

Pattaya however enjoys one of the highest population growth rates of any city in Asia, is close to the new Airport with a new motorway being completed with typical Thai urgency (?), and a new high speed railway linking Bkk/airport/Pattaya mooted.

 

My opinion is that it is a good real estate investment. What does, say, $250K buy you here compared to where you come from. But cash and patience required. And I could be wrong.

 

 

Way to look at the positive side! I agree with it all. Actually, I think the positives to owning a condo far outweigh the negatives.

[nohlsson1 19]

There is some great posts here. I know I am re-thinking alot right now.

[jacko 8,827]

Might want to read a post on the 'Member's Board'. Wongamat beach is littered and a haven for ladyboys prostituting themselves. Obviously both of these can be 'cleaned up'.

 

I think a condo would be nice and convenient, but the purchase prices now are insane. Pricing them in Sqm.... be Euros next. There is also an annual service charge and a scalping on the electric rate too.

Edited May 29, 2007 by jacko

[bangkapiboy 5]

Wongamat beach is littered and a haven for ladyboys prostituting themselves. Obviously both of these can be 'cleaned up'.

 

 

Where is this? I haven't seen it. But I rarely go to Naklua.

[Gary 4,119]

The only property you can legally own in Thailand is a condo within the 49 percent farang allowance. I think that is now widely understood. That said, IMHO it is foolish to invest in a condo. If you want to buy a condo it should be because you like it and want to live there. Investing in Thailand is not a good idea. I am happy to see my condo appreciate in price but it's really not important because I don't want to sell it. It's my little security blanket and I alway have a place to go. Living in a shoe box is not my idea of living. My condo is 60 square meters with a separate bedroom. No way would I buy a studio.

[phw10 0]

As many on this board have pointed out---it is up to you. I think condos are like BG and you can find another if you look. Having said that, I bought last summer and had mine completely gutted and renovated so it feels like mine. It has a white water ocean view which I love and could never afford in California. I did not buy for investment purposes or to rent out, but to live in it.

 

I think you can still find a deal if that it what you want to do. Renting vs. buying is the eternal debate and no one is completely right or wrong.

[Gary 4,119]

Might want to read a post on the 'Member's Board'. Wongamat beach is littered and a haven for ladyboys prostituting themselves. Obviously both of these can be 'cleaned up'.

 

I think a condo would be nice and convenient, but the purchase prices now are insane. Pricing them in Sqm.... be Euros next. There is also an annual service charge and a scalping on the electric rate too.

 

Jacko made a good point. Before you buy, check to see if you get billed directly from the electric company or whether the condo developer is billing you and getting a nice cut. The maintenance fees are normally paid monthly and can vary big time. I noticed a new development in Bangkok that was charging a whopping 85 baht per square meter. My condo fee is 10 baht per square meter thus my 60 square meter unit fee is 600 baht per month. That covers trash disposal, insurance, security and grounds upkeep. I also get billed directly by the electric company so no cut for middle men.

[jacko 8,827]

Where is this? I haven't seen it. But I rarely go to Naklua.

http://www.pattayatalk.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=462627

[Bullfrog 2,224]

http://www.pattayatalk.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=462627

 

 

The areas of the beach that I visited before signing my condo contract seemed OK...Lets hope that with the new developments shooting up on that last stretch of road will improve the condition and facilities along Wongamat...

[jackcorbett 2]

Might want to read a post on the 'Member's Board'. Wongamat beach is littered and a haven for ladyboys prostituting themselves. Obviously both of these can be 'cleaned up'.

 

I think a condo would be nice and convenient, but the purchase prices now are insane. Pricing them in Sqm.... be Euros next. There is also an annual service charge and a scalping on the electric rate too.

 

I'm the guy who posted about the litter and ladyboys. Now you gotta get this picture. Around a month ago I went to Koh Chang with some friends and I stayed on White Sands Beach. There are no islands to break up the monotony of the straight Coastline. But the water's pretty clean. Contrast this picture to the one at Wongamat Beach with Koh Larn and other islands to add interest to your view, nearly breathtaking rock outcroppings along the shoreline and the way this shoreline twists and meanders. There's huge potential here.

 

But here's the present reality. Just as I started this post, my girlfriend sitting next to me got me to pay attention to what was being shown on t.v. Just moments ago I was looking at the green slimy waters of Wongamat Beach less than 1 kilometer from my condo. The water shown on the news broadcast looked like a green slimy cesspool.

 

Nearly every day I walk this beach, often walking past Buddha Hill, then walking back to my condo at Wongamat. The degree of litter is disgusting. In places there's lots of broken glass to cut yourself on if you go barefoot. Once in awhile I will encounter rivulets of water draining into the sea which my Thai girlfriend points out to me while exclaiming, "See why I won't swim off the beach here!" It's the smell of shit we are smelling. And three of her Thai girlfriends won't swim in this water either. Back to the litter, they clean up the litter a lot more often on the Central Pattaya than they do on this one. THere are areas here that resemble a garbage pit.

 

But it gets better---I mean worse. When I get around 1.2 kilometers South of the Long Beach Hotel on my walks I encounter an area overgrown with cactus. There is a narrow path winding through all this cactus. But hanging all over the cactus, caught in all its sharp needles is all sorts of paper, plastic objects and other litter. Now once I get through the cactus there's a bunch of large boulders a hundred meters ahead of me. There's a gap between these boulders one normally walks through. But nearly every time I do these walks a scantily clad lady boy positions himself close to this gap. He has a little hovel in the bushes just a few yards away, and nearly every time I go through he calls out to me. This has been going on for many months. I will often have a buddy with me while I'm walking South but on the return trip I'm usually alone since my companion has usually terminated his walk at South Pattaya Road. Several weeks ago this ladyboy had been joined by several of his buddies. One of them called out, "Do you have any money?" Then, several days ago as I passed through the gap with him standing only a few feet away from me he said to me, "Do you want me to suck you? I suck real good." Now just imagine this picture. He's got what appears to be a thatched roof of sorts where he puts on his makeup and no doubt sleeps. So if a man takes him up on it he literally crawls through these bushes to have sex with the ladyboy in this hovel. Now do keep in mind he knows I'm not interested and that I'm obviously out there exercising.

 

Not once have I ever encountered a single policeman on this stretch of the beach.

 

I digress.......on the television they just showed a quick flash to this area of the beach once again, the water a green slime with dead fish washed up onto the shore.

 

But later on during my walks I go into the Hills near Buddha Hill and including Buddha Hill. They have crews of workers cleaning up the area. The foliage is magnificent. So obviously the powers that be over this area are most concerned about this piece of beautiful scenery. But I understand the Queen has a house here, so perhaps that's the reason.

 

Obviously, the authorities don't give a rat's ass about Wongamat Beach. Or the tourists or the expats who live here or might live here in the future. Meanwhile work has started on the Northpoint condos close to me with starting prices something like 100,000 baht per square meter. View Talay Six is nearing completion. There is a large hotel-entertainment complex going up on Soi Wongamat just South of Northpoint.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I really like my condo here and I really like the area, but think about it. What do you really think the level of craftsmanship is going to be like underneath the brightly painted exterior of some of these new condos? How about the rendering just beneath the paint which is that thin layer of concrete like material they trowel onto the exterior walls? Take a look at all the cracks are appearing due to the hollow sections where the rendering didn't take.

 

As for my own building, I really don't think it would have ever been completed had it not been for one German guy heading the construction project. The guy just wouldn't ever give up no matter what problems he was having with the construction company he had contracted with that was actually doing the work. The day I was supposed to move in, this large septic tank burst open. I was to be the first resident to actually move in. A small emergency tank was put in so the delay caused by the septic tank rupture was in my case only one week. What had happened is the German had warned the Thai contractor that the septic tank needed a proper foundation and that it needed to be supported--otherwise I would likely move around under the ground. But the Thais knew everything and assured him this wouldn't happen. It did, and when it did they had already poured the concrete parking lot over the septic tank. It took weeks for them to tear out all the concrete, dig around this 30 foot long septic tank, take it out, find suitable replacement tanks (they couldn't get one the same size) and install it. Of course, an American or German or other European company would have done all that work in four or five days. But this is Thailand.

 

You will notice that the crews at View Talay Six moved pretty quickly and got a lot done real fast until only several months ago. Now look at how many workers are actually working versus the number of workers who are watching or starting out into outer space. Same thing happened with our condo building. If work was progressing at 100 work units per day, it went down to 50, then to 25, and I started to wonder when it would go to 10, then zero and the building would never be finished.

 

About the price of the 48 square meter View Talay Six units being 3.5 million baht. My condo is 126 square meters and I paid exactly that. That's roughly three times the space for the same price and this was just two years ago. With the baht being so high right now and the rapid escalation of prices I've seen in just the past two years, and the other problems I've just mentioned, it's a crap shoot alright. It's nice to own your own place but renting seems to be by far the safer bet.

Edited June 1, 2007 by jackcorbett

[Gary 4,119]

It's been touched on but not really emphasized that there are still condo complexes sitting empty from the last boom. I would NEVER buy pre-construction and if anyone is even considering buying from a plan, you better do ALL your homework and make sure the developer has enough funds to complete the project. I would guess that many of these developments will never be completed. Some progressed to the point that the building appeared to be nearly finished but never had the utilities completed. A nice new condo unit with no water or electricity is useless. When buying an existing unit, check to see how healthy the maintenance fund is. A good condo association will have a healthy surplus balance. If only half the units are sold, there obviously won't be enough maintenance fees being paid to maintain the place. The Lalana complex on Soi Chaiyapruk Jomtien has such a huge surplus that they give owners a 2,000 baht refund for attending the yearly meeting. Every development has a balance sheet showing the fund balance and that is freely available to owners and potential owners. Lalana is a well run complex and the fees are 10 baht per square meter per month. The grounds are spotless and well taken care of. The guy who rents my unit tried to take a TV out of the complex and ended up calling me to OK the move. Security refused to allow him to take the TV out.

[nohlsson1 19]

It's been touched on but not really emphasized that there are still condo complexes sitting empty from the last boom. I would NEVER buy pre-construction and if anyone is even considering buying from a plan, you better do ALL your homework and make sure the developer has enough funds to complete the project. I would guess that many of these developments will never be completed. Some progressed to the point that the building appeared to be nearly finished but never had the utilities completed. A nice new condo unit with no water or electricity is useless. When buying an existing unit, check to see how healthy the maintenance fund is. A good condo association will have a healthy surplus balance. If only half the units are sold, there obviously won't be enough maintenance fees being paid to maintain the place. The Lalana complex on Soi Chaiyapruk Jomtien has such a huge surplus that they give owners a 2,000 baht refund for attending the yearly meeting. Every development has a balance sheet showing the fund balance and that is freely available to owners and potential owners. Lalana is a well run complex and the fees are 10 baht per square meter per month. The grounds are spotless and well taken care of. The guy who rents my unit tried to take a TV out of the complex and ended up calling me to OK the move. Security refused to allow him to take the TV out.

Is there a web site for this complex. I have a friend over there currently looking for a Condo. The last I heard she was looking at some that were due to be finished this time next year. I hope she is careful?

[mb3house 0]

I think you should seriously think if 48m is enough, I live in a 66m condo and it is barely enough, and you could get a better deal for a bigger condo in Pratumnak area which also has great views, and is very peaceful at night.

[Gary 4,119]

Is there a web site for this complex. I have a friend over there currently looking for a Condo. The last I heard she was looking at some that were due to be finished this time next year. I hope she is careful?

 

 

Ban Suan Lalana has been sold out for a number of years so there is no web site. It is a fairly large complex so there are normally units for sale. The studios are 40 square meters and often there are large units for sale because people bought two studios and put them together. The corner units are 60 square meters and many people bought a studio to add to the corner unit. A corner unit added to a studio is 100 square meters and makes for a very large place. Studios (40 square meters) sell for about 1.4 million baht depending on the floor and the location. The buildings are only five stories high..