United airlines..PR disaster

[Butch 3,456]

Oh Dear

 

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2017/04/10/video-shows-man-forcibly-removed-united-flight-chicago-louisville/100274374/

 

So, you pay for your flight,sit in your seat, get picked by a computer as UA have fucked up their booking process and overbooked by 5 PAX, refuse to leave your seat and then get your face smashed in by the Police.

 

Nothing like a nice bit of Customer service eh?. Apparently this is a shitstorm in the USA and is costing UA millions already.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Butch

[js007 795]

If they're going to overbook flights like that, they need to make it right with the passengers. Raise the price to leave the plane to whatever it takes. I bet $10K would have done the trick.

[jacko 8,813]

If they're going to overbook flights like that, they need to make it right with the passengers. Raise the price to leave the plane to whatever it takes. I bet $10K would have done the trick.

Something to be resolved before boarding.

I have been in a the situation where flights have been overbooked and ever improving incentives were being offered to get passengers to fly later.

 

I am not sure how they selected this guy, but being forcibly ejected is surely an extreme last resort.

 

An announcement along the lines 'we need (a) volunteer(s) to give up his/her seat due to overbooking and offer a First Class seat on the next available flight or whenever you choose, and $1000 in cash', would likely have emptied the aircraft. I have other suggestions but I have seen United stewardesses.

[Billions 687]

If they're going to overbook flights like that, they need to make it right with the passengers. Raise the price to leave the plane to whatever it takes. I bet $10K would have done the trick.

 

 

Exactly.

 

I've been in the departure lounge when the airline starts offering ever-escalating amounts to bribe a few passengers to accept a later flight.

 

In BAs case, they bid ever higher until they get enough acceptances. Every five minutes the bribe increased by £200......

[MM 6,562]

This could be the best thing that's happened to the passenger. The compensation UA will have to pay him should be quite hefty. Good!

[MM 6,562]

From the LA Times...they really screwed up this situation. It would have been worth offering any amount of compensation to get volunteers rather than suffer the results of this negative PR.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-united-video-20170410-story.html

United finds a new way to make itself look awful, and then its CEO shows how to make things worse

The adage about a picture being worth a thousand words never seemed as true as it did early Monday morning, when a video clip shot around the Internet showing a passenger being violently removed from a United Airlines plane in Chicago for refusing to be “voluntarily” bumped from the flight.

United no doubt will expend thousands of words explaining or apologizing for this incident in coming hours, days and weeks. It won’t help. The video is just too raw.

United’s PR department first issued a statement explaining blandly that the Chicago-to-Louisville flight late Sunday was overbooked, and that “after our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate. We apologize for the overbook situation. Further details on the removed customer should be directed to authorities.”

United CEO Oscar Munoz then made things worse with a statement of Orwellian doublespeak. “This is an upsetting event to all of us here at United,” he said. “I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers,” whatever that means.

[uPDATE: According to CNBC, Munoz followed up Monday evening with a letter to employees defending the airline’s ground staff and describing the still-unidentified passenger as “disruptive and belligerent.” He said the airline agents “were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight.”

[but Munoz, whose version of the episode appears to come from the playbook of how to make a PR disaster even worse, also undermined the argument that the flight was overbooked. He related that “after the flight was fully boarded,” gate agents “were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.” The implication is that the crewmembers heading to Louisville were late in arriving, that every passenger held a paid ticket and had been properly boarded, and only that only belatedly did United decide to pull passengers off the plane to make room.

[it’s unclear from United’s contract of carriage how either its rule regarding “refusal of transport” (Rule 21) or “denied boarding compensation” (Rule 25) applies to a passenger already seated and instructed to deplane to make room for a company employee rather than another paying passenger.

[Whether United had “no choice” but to forcibly eject the passenger also is questionable, as presumably the airline could have transported its crewmembers to Louisville either by road (a five-hour drive) or by chartering another aircraft. In any event, Munoz in his letter asserts that “treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are.”]

Plainly this was a botched job in countless ways and at multiple levels. The reports are that the flight was the last one to Louisville on Sunday, and that United offered passengers up to $800 plus overnight accommodations and an alternative flight leaving Monday afternoon in order to free up four seats for a flight crew needing to reach Louisville.

When you buy a plane ticket, here's what you have to agree to »

SNAP Video
Video posted by United passenger Audra Bridges shows a passenger being forcibly removed from a flight.
When the voluntary offer failed, four passengers evidently were chosen at random to be involuntarily bumped. This happened after the plane had been loaded, which is certainly an unusual wrinkle in the annals of passenger treatment. One couple went quietly, but another passenger objected. Before being dragged off the plane, he reportedly identified himself as a doctor with patients to see on Monday. When he refused to go, the ground staff summoned police, who physically manhandled him out of his seat and dragged him, bloodied, down the aisle as several other passengers documented the event on their smartphones. The plane was delayed by two hours.

What sort of training United offers its personnel to manage such episodes isn’t known, but plainly it stinks.

What’s even more important is what this episode says about the terms and conditions of air travel in the United States. It’s in a bad way.

United Airlines takes a new step to make air travel more unpleasant and more expensive
United Airlines takes a new step to make air travel more unpleasant and more expensive
To begin with, the law allows air carriers to overbook flights — that is, sell more tickets than they have seats for. That’s plainly a situation that benefits the airlines almost exclusively, because it tends to ensure that every seat will be filled even at the cost of leaving some passengers behind. How many businesses do you know of that can sell you a good or service, accept payment, and then withdraw that good or service unilaterally for their own purposes — much less by force?

Passengers bumped involuntarily have rights to compensation, but the airlines have great latitude to set their own priority rules for bumping travelers. Typically it’s those paying the lowest fares, lacking membership in a frequent-flyer program, or checking in late who are most at risk. Bumpees who are going to be more than two hours late to a domestic destination are entitled to compensation of 400% of their one-way fare, up to $1,350, plus the value of their ticket.

These rules, obviously, are in dire need of upgrading to suit modern conditions. The Department of Transportation acknowledges in its outline of passenger rights that some passengers may be more amenable to voluntary bumping than others, or less flexible in their travel plans: “Almost any planeload of airline passengers includes some people with urgent travel needs and others who may be more concerned about the cost of their tickets than about getting to their destination on time.” The agency encourages airlines to “negotiate with their passengers for mutually acceptable compensation” in order to secure needed seats..

As Daniel Gross observed at Slate.com, airlines have squeezed their overbooking privilege until it screams for mercy, even as they’re consistently flying fuller planes. (Question: When was the last time you boarded a plane that had more than a small handful of middle seats open?) In the most recent boom-and-bust airline cycle, the industry “load factor” — the percentage of seats filled — bottomed out at 72.21% in February 2009, in the teeth of a crushing recession, but more recently has run in the mid-80s. That appears to be as high as it’s been in this century and may be an absolute limit, because some routes will never run at 100%.

Tighter passenger loads have coincided with an economic recovery that makes flyers more resistant to giving up hours, even days, of inconvenience, even for a few hundred bucks. As Gross pointed out, a two-hour delay in a flight could translate to a missed family event or a lost business contract; the Department of Transportation is exactly right about the diverse flexibility of passenger needs.

The solution to the conflict between an airline’s desire to fill every seat and passengers’ need to get where they’re going on time is blindingly obvious: let the market work. The Louisville doctor’s need to get home was clearly worth more to him than $800. But so was United’s need to get a crew from Chicago to Louisville. The airline decided to cheap out by not offering passengers payment that would be enough to free up more seats. Instead of paying the true value of moving its crew, it decided to impose that cost on one unfortunate passenger.

Then, as though to prove beyond doubt that it considered its passengers the expendable players in this drama, it summoned the Chicago police to do its dirty work. Something’s wrong with the intellects running United Airlines, and if there’s any justice in the world, now they’ll really pay

[Chester007 175]

The part I don't get over this. The plane was not over booked. It was fully booked. Until UA had 4 of their employees needing to get to a destination for a flight. So they kicked off 3 and dragged one off the plane to accommodate UA crew members.

 

When the plane eventually left, the passengers were reportedly giving the stink eye to the 4 crew members sitting among them. The idiot wanna be (scapegoat) cop has been suspended. The whole thing is terrible as it shows UA using Police to conduct their over sights in a draconian manner.

[TheFiend 1,181]

Read this http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1360189

 

I can't believe some people are actually defending the airline.

[Chester007 175]

The 4 employees were on "stand by", which means if there are open seats you get them. Unfortunately, all passengers showed up. Which usually means the stand by people are SOL.

If anyone flys UA, I would suggest to bring a motorcycle helmet and wear it in case of stand by's meaning something different if it's UA employees waiting.

[short 215]

Overbooking made since 40 years ago but not now. Back then you could reserve a seat without putting any money on the plate. Its not that way now.

 

It is time to outlaw overbooking.

[ttk 236]

First off, as far as I can tell, they were not "Stand by" passengers, they were an aircrew that was need in Louisville for a flight the following morning.

 

The flight in question was a puddle jumper that was operated by Republic airlines according to the reports I have read. Looking at the schedule for that route, only United has a non-stop, with one of those flights operated by Republic airlines and 4 operated by Trans States Airlines.

The schedule shows that the Republic flight leaves at 5:41 PM with one later flight at 9PM operated by Trans States Airlines. In addition, to United, American Airlines and Delta also fly that route but as a one-stop. These flights take 3-5 hours longer (4-6 hours total vs just over 1) so I can see why there were no volunteers. Why Republic could not place the 4 employees on one of the many other flights is not clear (other then maybe a Union contract that calls for them to be on their planes).

 

The decision to remove 4 seated passenger would have been done by Republic Airlines staff even though flight has United plastered all over the airplane and there is plenty of blame to spread around. NO way I defending the action by the airlines and police though.

 

Most airlines have a set procedure for deciding who does not fly and it is not a "random computer selection" . It is based on frequent flyer status, price paid, check-in time ...... I do not know which is most important, but I would guess that all 4 passengers removed were low fare no status and late check-ins.

 

I have been in the we have no room for you situation at Amsterdam flying KLM. Even though I was top tier frequent flyer, Y class ticket, I had done a layover in Amsterdam on a SEA-AMS-BAH trip and was checking in about 3 hours before flight time. Everyone doing the connection had checked in hours earlier. After having the KLM staff try to convince me to take a flight via Saudi Arabia (all KLM planes) or Turkey (on Turkish Airlines) we finally said we would go to the gate and wait. If seats were available we would go if not (800 euro and a hotel for the night)....we wound up in business class seats.

[ttk 236]

Overbooking made since 40 years ago but not now. Back then you could reserve a seat without putting any money on the plate. Its not that way now.

 

It is time to outlaw overbooking.

If overbooking were banned, the airlines would be flying planes with lots of empty seats since passengers on full fare changeable tickets tend to be no shows. While working, I would guess that I changed to a different return flight close too 1/2 the time.

To compensate for passengers that do that, Airlines would probably make the tickets valid for ONLY the flight you reserved. Changes would be permitted ahead of time (24 hours) but the cost would be such that it is better to toss the ticket and buy a new one. (Cebu Pacific comes to mind but I am sure there are other low cost carriers). Miss the flight and you buy a new ticket.

[nkped 1,208]

And the crew were likely in uniform to make it a complete PR SNAFU.

[teelack 9,631]

The topic heading mentioned a PR Disaster. Sitting by the beach in far off New Zealand I was regaled with this story on the news. Just assuming that someone here was flying around the USA, would they book that airline. Who cares who else does this type of thing. The whole thing appears to be an international disaster and I would hope that every airline takes notice and sorts their attitude to customer service.

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Chester007 175]

First off, as far as I can tell, they were not "Stand by" passengers, they were an aircrew that was need in Louisville for a flight the following morning.

 

 

Bridges says United asked for four passengers to relinquish their seats for airline employees on stand-by. ....this is the LAST sentence in the article!!!!

Article to read: Click

Edited April 11, 2017 by Chester007

[Kev 178]

Just curious folks as I'm in Australia, are Untied a cheap airline or what?

[ichy2 429]

Just curious folks as I'm in Australia, are Untied a cheap airline or what?

They are the largest carrier in the US of A.

[nkped 1,208]

Just curious folks as I'm in Australia, are Untied a cheap airline or what?

They are the largest carrier in the US of A.

UA has developed cheap tendencies in recent years. You have to pay extra if you want to keep your kneecaps.

[statman208 41]

All of these articles make it sound like United offered $400 and then $800 CASH. Unless something has changed, they always offered Vouchers of that amout toward another ticket. I did this a bunch of times, but not recently.

 

One time I took a voucher for $800 thinking that would buy 2 domestic flights. However, later, when I went to cash part of it for a flight, I was told I only get to use it all at once or lose the rest. I had to fight like heck to get them to allow me to use the balance for another flight (and perhaps only got it because I'm Platitum).

 

And if I remember right, there might be a 1 year deadline on using the darn thing.

 

My point is this "offer" isn't as great as it sounds unless you fly United alot and can use the full value of the voucher on one flight. It certainly doesn't cost United much since there is a good chance you'll book a flight that isn't full anyway.

 

If I'm out of date and it's changed, I'm sure someone will let us know.

 

I can't stand what that airline has become. This incident doesn't surprise me at all having dealt with their customer service so often.

Edited April 11, 2017 by statman208

[nkped 1,208]

[Chester007 175]

CEO blames the passanger!! Click

[Bushcraft 2,579]

Turns out this unfortunate 69(!) year-old grandfather is a medical specialist with 5 children, four of whom are themselves doctors. In other words, a person of some consequence. No doubt he was upset at being coerced into leaving the plane. But to call the cops and beat an old man bloody and unconscious for asserting himself is an outrage beyond belief, and reflects badly on the state of things in (sadly) police-state USA.

I hope this costs the airline and possibly police a packet, the lawyers must be lining up to represent the victim.

[Chester007 175]

All of these articles make it sound like United offered $400 and then $800 CASH. Unless something has changed, they always offered Vouchers of that amout toward another ticket. I did this a bunch of times, but not recently.

 

One time I took a voucher for $800 thinking that would buy 2 domestic flights. However, later, when I went to cash part of it for a flight, I was told I only get to use it all at once or lose the rest. I had to fight like heck to get them to allow me to use the balance for another flight (and perhaps only got it because I'm Platitum).

 

And if I remember right, there might be a 1 year deadline on using the darn thing.

 

My point is this "offer" isn't as great as it sounds unless you fly United alot and can use the full value of the voucher on one flight. It certainly doesn't cost United much since there is a good chance you'll book a flight that isn't full anyway.

 

If I'm out of date and it's changed, I'm sure someone will let us know.

 

I can't stand what that airline has become. This incident doesn't surprise me at all having dealt with their customer service so often.

By rights, in the States anyway. You are able to ask and receive CASH instead of vouchers.

[Chester007 175]

Well this didn't take long to smear the doctor. United's PR team no doubt gave this to TMZ Click

 

United Airlines stock just fell 8.3% wiping out 830 million Click

 

So while the Dr's medical licence was suspended, he was a pro poker player!! Click

Edited April 11, 2017 by Chester007

[midlifecrisis 4,048]

It appears per news reports today that the paying passenger was removed for a UA employee.

 

UA really screwed up. Even the right to remove a passenger is not 100%.