Boeing 737-Max. Another one down.

[jacko 8,814]

A bit worrying, a new aircraft and experienced pilot goes down. Ethiopian Airlines Nairobi Bound.

Ethiopian Airlines crash: carriers ground Boeing 737 Max 8 jets in wake of disaster.

Ethiopian Airlines joins China and Cayman Islands in suspending use of the new jets following second tragedy in four months.

Guardian.

 

An Ethiopian Airlines jet has crashed shortly after take-off from Addis Ababa, killing all on board.

The airline said 149 passengers and eight crew members were on flight ET302 from the Ethiopian capital to Nairobi in Kenya.

It said 32 Kenyans, 18 Canadians, eight Americans and seven British nationals were among the passengers.

The crash happened at 08:44 local time, six minutes after the months-old Boeing 737 Max-8 took off.

BBC

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by jacko

[sailingbill 1,034]

I have always had an interest in aviation. I was a pilot when younger though unfortunately not very good or i would have taken that career path. For those interested , a suggested link

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/    Surprised it is open as they are quite candid. Not sure what to say about the Max at this time.

Paris Air show Anyone?

 

[jacko 8,814]

41 minutes ago, sailingbill said:

I have always had an interest in aviation. I was a pilot when younger though unfortunately not very good or i would have taken that career path. For those interested , a suggested link

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/    Surprised it is open as they are quite candid. Not sure what to say about the Max at this time.

Paris Air show Anyone?

 

Was that link supposed to lead me to a discussion of the 737-Max? 

[Barhop 197]

http://www.b737.org.uk/737maxdiffs.htm

This site opens, but I was trying to find the difference between 737-MAX and 737-800 (the 800 used to be my second flight, Guangzhou- Bangkok; Kuala Lumpur-Bangkok or Singapore-Bangkok) and not being hugely techy it went over my head ?  Luckly, SIA has upgraded its fleet and my future flights are A350-900 1st flight then A330-300 2nd flight.  Used to be that on all of my three options the A330-300 was the FIRST flight then the crappy Boeing 737-800 second.  Now with SIA, the new A350 is long and the A330 is short leg ☺️☺️?

TBH, do not wish to walk onto one of these MAX's but it seems with using SIA only now, it won't happen... But I still wonder what changed between Boeing MAX and 800...

Of course, sympathies to all involved in the two MAX's that dropped...

Edited March 11, 2019 by Barhop

[wacmedia 277]

Hi,

737 is one of the most reliable craft so worrying that this version looks problematic.

[TheFiend 1,181]

An interesting read.....

[sailingbill 1,034]

Sure Jacko, sorry i'm not the best at the link thing. Go to Forums, the discussion on the crash. A lot of info on the Max from pilots.

[js007 795]

After this latest crash, I double checked my ticket to see what planes I was scheduled on.  No 737Max, fortunately.  For most of my flight I'm on an Airbus 350-900 for 15 hours or so, then on a Boeing of some sort for the final leg to Bangkok from Seoul.  

[Butch 3,456]

34 minutes ago, js007 said:

After this latest crash, I double checked my ticket to see what planes I was scheduled on.  No 737Max, fortunately.  For most of my flight I'm on an Airbus 350-900 for 15 hours or so, then on a Boeing of some sort for the final leg to Bangkok from Seoul.  

Your itinerary sghould list the type of Aircraft upon which you will be travelling on each leg, or if you are concerned about the Seoul - BKK Aircraft, just throw the flight number into google and then search for the flight details.

[jacko 8,814]

6 hours ago, sailingbill said:

Sure Jacko, sorry i'm not the best at the link thing. Go to Forums, the discussion on the crash. A lot of info on the Max from pilots.

It got interesting about here.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/120514-ethiopian-737-crash-2.html

I have a flight at the end of the month  which I usually make on Malaysian, and 3/4 are on 737-800 equipment. I feel pleased that, for a change, I will be on Thai in one of their ancient 747's. Well I say for a change, more to do with delayed departures and aggravation at KL last time. 

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by jacko

[js007 795]

Apparently, Australia has now grounded the planes.  Of course, the USA says they are "safe." I wouldn't count on that.  

[awesum4 2,333]

I'm not a pilot,  and only have a very basic understanding of the intricacies of jet flight. But post #6 by the fiend makes scary reading. If I understand it correctly,  Boeing built a plane with a very complex automatic system for overcoming serious problems in some situations. But they didnt explain it to the airlines because the pilots wouldn't have understood it,  and besides the pilots wouldn't even notice when it happened.

There are some very serious and very expensive implications here for Boeing I think. 

[MrMango 671]

On 3/10/2019 at 11:57 PM, wacmedia said:

Hi,

737 is one of the most reliable craft so worrying that this version looks problematic.

Yes but the Max version is a new bird.

[firth1974 2,659]

The UK has now banned them from take off, landing and flying overhead UK airspace!!!

I believe they may also be banned from flying in EU airspace too!

[nkped 1,208]

The 737-800 has been in operation for several years now.  The Max 8 is the newest iteration.

[jacko 8,814]

14 hours ago, nkped said:

The 737-800 has been in operation for several years now.  The Max 8 is the newest iteration.

And this is the only iteration with the heavier engines which I believe they moved forward to stop them hitting the ground and changed the aerodynamics such that they did this software change to push the nose down?

[Bob Belzy 150]

20 minutes ago, jacko said:

And this is the only iteration with the heavier engines which I believe they moved forward to stop them hitting the ground and changed the aerodynamics such that they did this software change to push the nose down?

As far as I understand it that is correct, although the engines are not only moved forward, but also slightly upwards. The MCAS software that is subject to much discussion is there to cater for the changed configuration and is in action when the autopilot is off.

[jacko 8,814]

They are near all grounded!

US joins EU in grounding all flights on Boeing 737 MAX planes.

https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/12/boeing-737-max-aircraft-involved-in-two-fatal-crashes-banned-from-uk-airspace

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopia-airlines-crash/index.html

 

 

[Bob Belzy 150]

One of the better reports I read suggested that additional data to that already reported by Flightradar24 was obtained from satellite uploads; and that something in that data triggered the rapid string of groundings.

[teelack 9,640]

A couple of days ago I saw one of the most sickening reports on Fox News and only confirmed for me that this really is at the peak of fake news channels. In essence the three wise news people came to the conclusion that there really was nothing wrong with the wonderful American technology and it all came down to the fact that overseas pilots were not trained as well as the home grown versions. They failed to note that the great American icon, Boeing, therefore apparently sold these aircraft all around the world known that they would be piloted by these inferior pilots. Seems to be a case of 'Take the money and run".  What a bunch of biased incompetent journalists these people are. 

[TheFiend 1,181]

2 hours ago, teelack said:

A couple of days ago I saw one of the most sickening reports on Fox News and only confirmed for me that this really is at the peak of fake news channels. In essence the three wise news people came to the conclusion that there really was nothing wrong with the wonderful American technology and it all came down to the fact that overseas pilots were not trained as well as the home grown versions. They failed to note that the great American icon, Boeing, therefore apparently sold these aircraft all around the world known that they would be piloted by these inferior pilots. Seems to be a case of 'Take the money and run".  What a bunch of biased incompetent journalists these people are. 

You should read what some of the Boeing fanboys come out with on airliners.net. If it's a Boeing plane that's in an accident they throw the blame at anything but Boeing. It's the same with engine manufacturers too.... To them GE engines are the bee's knees and RR are to be despised... 

[TheFiend 1,181]

3 hours ago, Bob Belzy said:

One of the better reports I read suggested that additional data to that already reported by Flightradar24 was obtained from satellite uploads; and that something in that data triggered the rapid string of groundings.

Apparently after looking at the satellite data the spotted similarities to the Lion Air crash in changes of altitude prior to the crash. The black box data should confirm it.

[Bob Belzy 150]

1 hour ago, TheFiend said:

Apparently after looking at the satellite data the spotted similarities to the Lion Air crash in changes of altitude prior to the crash. The black box data should confirm it.

Another concern is the possibility that it was the FAA that actually mandated the 'protection' to be incorporated in the MCAS that is the likely culprit in both crashes.

[jacko 8,814]

5 hours ago, TheFiend said:

You should read what some of the Boeing fanboys come out with on airliners.net. If it's a Boeing plane that's in an accident they throw the blame at anything but Boeing. It's the same with engine manufacturers too.... To them GE engines are the bee's knees and RR are to be despised... 

I saw a comment on one site where the fact that the Ethiopian Airlines black box and CVR being given to Airbus was likely to produce biased and inaccurate results as it would be worth billions to Airbus. How that did not apply to Boeing I am unsure.

[jacko 8,814]

4 hours ago, Bob Belzy said:

Another concern is the possibility that it was the FAA that actually mandated the 'protection' to be incorporated in the MCAS that is the likely culprit in both crashes.

These types of corrections that effectively override pilot control make me concerned... software has it's limits.

Was it NASA who failed to change units correctly on Climate Orbiter ? Oops, that was in metric?

Edited March 15, 2019 by jacko