Is it our own fault Walking Street is going downhill?

[Butch 3,456]

Hi,

This might not go well for me lol.

 

I know Patts is still a good destination, offering decent hotels and restaurants, bars and some good fun to be had, but the "demise" of Walking street into a very aggressively marketed commercial centre, and the hardened attitudes of the girls working there has turned it into an place to be avoided by most mongers, apart from looking at some eye candy and the odd, decent venue worth visiting like FLB, Mistys, Babydolls or Diablo. These kinds of venue are slowly becoming the exceptions rather than the rules of WS though.

 

Now this isn't (hopefully) going to turn into a thread about prices, more of one about attitudes.

 

Has the behaviour and attitude of farangs in recent years effectively turned the girls off us?. Not only this, has it also had a bearing upon how we're now viewed by alot of Bar Managers and Mamasans?. We all know that we were never flavour of the month, despite paying their wages, but still, there was an element of customer service and a reasonable attitude. These days, in some GGB's you're less of a customer and seemingly more of an inconvenience, albeit one with a few baht.

 

Even 5 years ago we didnt have Agency girls. The dancers were , mostly, keen and eager to get BF'd. now, there is a definite apathy evident. Jesus, I honestly think I was looked at with some disdain by them last trip (no sarcasm please...) :)

 

It's easy to blame the girls and managment, and maybe they are partly responsible, but the attitudes and behaviour of mongers has changed in recent times as well. More fights, more arguments with the staff over being ripped off, more guys getting thrown out of GGB's for taking pics, more bare chested guys swaggering around & less respect being shown to the girls in general.

 

It might even be easy to blame the Russians or the younger crowd, but there's no denying we all change, sometimes for better or sometimes for worse. I know that Pattaya has made me alot more cynical over the years.

 

Be interested to read peoples thoughts on this. We often read about bad attitudes from the girls etc, but seldom admit that the fault may lie a bit closer to home, not in our own behaviour, but of those perceived to be our countrymen by the Thais (read: Farangs).

 

Cheers

Butch

Edited November 21, 2012 by Butch

[teelack 9,639]

I think that there is no way that you can define any place on Earth by one street. Everything has changed including the balance of visitors, more Russians for instance and because of sheer numbers this changes the dynamics of the place

 

.I would rather judge the place on its totallity. There are still some great places in the WS area and add this to the emergence of Soi LK and there is I think now 7 gogos in the soi 7/8 area.

 

Like yourself I have just returned from Pattaya and loved the place no less than I did 10 years ago.It is different, it is changing but its still as much fun as I can manage.

 

Pattaya is a glass half full or half empty depending on your mood, attitude or state of mind.

[js007 795]

I think you guys think too much.

[teelack 9,639]

I think you guys think too much.

I think you guys think too much.

 

I think your a dickhead so?

[ZARIS 20]

I agree with the premise of the OP.There are a number of factors at play

 

1.The economic centre of the world is shifting away from USA and Europe to Asia.Hence those from the former have increasinly less $$$ to play with, causing a "tightness" in their attitudes.

Conversely asians have MORE $$$ to spend than b4- hence their extra attention.One should not be surprised at this, if you think at the girls "distain" for thai boys in bars, they know they have little to spend.

 

2.Cheap airfares- ferals and lowlife who previously could not afford an overseas holiday now can due to lower and lower airfares.This is happening worldover,Check out the disgusting level of behaviour in Bali by youn aussies as an eg.

 

3.Overdevelopment of hotels- more and more rooms keeps prices low, feeding #2

 

4.Increased economic opportunity in thailand itself-more jobs for the uneducated rather than working in bars for rising pay.

 

5.Landlords increasing rents and costs making bars less and less economical, hence the aggressive tactics.

 

6.The internet- a saviour and a menace, there just all the info you would ever need at the click of a mouse.The mystery that once existed has gone for all concerned.

 

I'm sure others can think of more.

[steamer 158]

Ya pays more and ya gets less.

 

What's not to like?

[Butch 3,456]

Teelak,

bloody good point, the dynamics have changed and will continue to do so. Within those dynamics - the balance of visitors, comes different attitudes, expectations and behaviours. However, I think this is more evident on WS than anywhere else.

 

I refer to WS specifically as it is as good an example as any when it comes to a change, not only physically but also in the way we, as mongers, are treated as customers. Sois 7,8, Metro etc are still pretty good places to hang out, and for the most part LK offers a glimpse of what the whole of Pattaya was like at one time and should be today. Maybe the closest thing I can compare it to is Pattayaland 2 in the late 90's - a relatively small street but still good enough to spend a whole night on should you wish to.

 

It's just that as one part of Pattaya goes into decline (depending of course, upon your perspective), another is improving expinent , exponiti , exponitial , alot.

 

Digressions aside, those very dynamics are having a negative effect upon the way we, as customers are treated and perceived by the girls. I know we were never much more than walking ATM's, but it seems like we are all now walking ATM's that someone has had a piss up against.

 

Cheers

Butch

[teelack 9,639]

Teelak,

bloody good point, the dynamics have changed and will continue to do so. Within those dynamics - the balance of visitors, comes different attitudes, expectations and behaviours. However, I think this is more evident on WS than anywhere else.

 

I refer to WS specifically as it is as good an example as any when it comes to a change, not only physically but also in the way we, as mongers, are treated as customers. Sois 7,8, Metro etc are still pretty good places to hang out, and for the most part LK offers a glimpse of what the whole of Pattaya was like at one time and should be today. Maybe the closest thing I can compare it to is Pattayaland 2 in the late 90's - a relatively small street but still good enough to spend a whole night on should you wish to.

 

It's just that as one part of Pattaya goes into decline (depending of course, upon your perspective), another is improving expinent , exponiti , exponitial , alot.

 

Digressions aside, those very dynamics are having a negative effect upon the way we, as customers are treated and perceived by the girls. I know we were never much more than walking ATM's, but it seems like we are all now walking ATM's that someone has had a piss up against.

 

Cheers

Butch

 

Hi there again Butch.

 

One of things that I believe people forget is this. Generally speaking we are only looking for one girl at a time. There is a problem for me trying to see the place as a a whole when all it takes is a great smile and some close encounter in a go go or where-ever. I was in Pattaya just last week and spent 27 nights there and had a total blast but I agree for instance that there are a hell of a lot of young chicks that will never give me the time of day and also a lot of ladies whose pussies must be made of gold for the amount of money that they look for.

 

Back to the point. I do this whole thing on a one by one basis and had as good a time as I ever did 10 years ago. I did spend more but this was by choice as my tastes are changing. Remember also that WS also includes the disco clubs and Marine for instance is a 1000 baht LT mongers paradise. I have also a phone full of numbers because I take the time to give it out. 10 years ago when few of us had mobiles and lap-tops this was not a possibility so some things go and some arrive.

[js007 795]

I think your a dickhead so?

 

Jeez. I was just trying to be funny. Don't take it seriously.

[teelack 9,639]

Jeez. I was just trying to be funny. Don't take it seriously.

 

Then pop a smiley on.

 

The OP raised what was for him an interesting point and took the time to write it up. If there were not people like him, the board would cease to exist A response like I think you guys think too much really does nothing for the topic, isnt humerous, add nothing to the board at all.

[tomcat76 327]

The world changes. Thailand is no exception, and I think Thais are becoming more worldly, more globally conscious & aware, less culturally inhibited & sheltered. They've learned how big the pie is, and they want more than they've gotten in the past. Perversely, the global economic downturn has kind of played a trick on them, and the pie is not so big as it might've been and they assume it still is. Still, IMO this whole thing is overstated, or perhaps mischaracterized. SO often you click with a girl and she goes with you for much less than the going rate, or even sometimes says she wants nothing at all. Scratch the surface, and sometimes that same old wonderful TG is still there; there's just a less pleasant veneer to some of it now.

 

Maybe I just see it through rose-tinted glasses since I don't live there, am not confronted with the day-in and day-out realities that expats are, and sort of immerse myself in the illusion when I AM there, to the extent that's what it is. One thing I know for sure, when I'm there, I don't second guess the motivation & mindset of everyone I meet or perform mental comparisons of the present with the past, or at least try not to (the older you get the harder it seems to be not to). I don't see how a guy could have much fun if doing that. I save all that for after I get home, and even then just treat it as something one has to pretty much just accept.

[teelack 9,639]

The world changes. Thailand is no exception, and I think Thais are becoming more worldly, more globally conscious & aware, less culturally inhibited & sheltered. They've learned how big the pie is, and they want more than they've gotten in the past. Perversely, the global economic downturn has kind of played a trick on them, and the pie is not so big as it might've been and they assume it still is. Still, IMO this whole thing is overstated, or perhaps mischaracterized. SO often you click with a girl and she goes with you for much less than the going rate, or even sometimes says she wants nothing at all. Scratch the surface, and sometimes that same old wonderful TG is still there; there's just a less pleasant veneer to some of it now.

 

Maybe I just see it through rose-tinted glasses since I don't live there, am not confronted with the day-in and day-out realities that expats are, and sort of immerse myself in the illusion when I AM there, to the extent that's what it is. One thing I know for sure, when I'm there, I don't second guess the motivation & mindset of everyone I meet or perform mental comparisons of the present with the past, or at least try not to (the older you get the harder it seems to be not to). I don't see how a guy could have much fun if doing that. I save all that for after I get home, and even then just treat it as something one has to pretty much just accept.

 

Interesting comment. Perhaps I have been lucky in that I have only met expats that are loving it and even after immersion for some while. I really dont think that you have rose tinted glasses, just a healthy attitude to the potential that is out there with a bit of effort.

[Butch 3,456]

I tend to agree, not living there but instead asking those that see it on a daily basis would give perhaps a better or more balanced outlook.

 

then again, it's like seeing the niece or nephew you haven't seen for ages, the they turn up and the first thing you notice is how much they've grown, as opposed to their parents who only notice how much of a pain in the arse they've become.

 

Bloody hell are we all getting old?..

[bratpack 91]

I dont go to walking st very much,purely as it bores the shit out of me now,too touristy,and looks delapidated now.When i first came here,my evenings were spent in WS,ESPECIALY THE GO-GO BARS,but my voyeristic (sp) addiction waned over the years.I love to bar hop too,so havent realy got a regualr drinking hole,but always see some hidden gems,not for me of course lol

[bratpack 91]

The world changes. Thailand is no exception, and I think Thais are becoming more worldly, more globally conscious & aware, less culturally inhibited & sheltered. They've learned how big the pie is, and they want more than they've gotten in the past. Perversely, the global economic downturn has kind of played a trick on them, and the pie is not so big as it might've been and they assume it still is. Still, IMO this whole thing is overstated, or perhaps mischaracterized. SO often you click with a girl and she goes with you for much less than the going rate, or even sometimes says she wants nothing at all. Scratch the surface, and sometimes that same old wonderful TG is still there; there's just a less pleasant veneer to some of it now.

 

Maybe I just see it through rose-tinted glasses since I don't live there, am not confronted with the day-in and day-out realities that expats are, and sort of immerse myself in the illusion when I AM there, to the extent that's what it is. One thing I know for sure, when I'm there, I don't second guess the motivation & mindset of everyone I meet or perform mental comparisons of the present with the past, or at least try not to (the older you get the harder it seems to be not to). I don't see how a guy could have much fun if doing that. I save all that for after I get home, and even then just treat it as something one has to pretty much just accept.

 

very good post.I think many of the expats who arent alcos,are realistic rather than cynical,but realism can be called cynisism,by the half empty glass brigade.Every time i go back to England to visit the family/friends,i am gagging to come back after a week due to my life here.Many say Pattaya isnt the same,of course thats true,the same as most places on the planet,but i think its changed for the good overall,even seeing the hordes of russians,Indonesians,Indians,Koreans etc etc,very good for many thai shops,BUT NOT GOOD FOR FARANG BARS,THE THAIS NEED LESS MONEY TO SURVIVE,AND THEY WILL..

[Idefix 2,275]

> Walking Street is going downhill

 

Who said that ??

WS has changed, sure, but never had so many agogos, so many dancers, so many pretty dancers

Some places I/you may not like... but so many others

Some things I/you may not like (some high prices?)... but so many nice ladies at very acceptable price

 

I do like WS

- for the many places where you can look at or play with some very pretty girls

- for the many places & ways to get a good lady companion for the night

 

"a very aggressively marketed", "the hardened attitudes of the girls", "a place to be avoided by most mongers" ???

Seriously!??? Agree with others: You think way too much! WS is still a great place

[Butch 3,456]

Idelfix

 

Aggressively marketed - yes, it is, compared to the way it was before, but thats change for you I guess . The general concensus is that the showgirls are harder to deal with, one tends to get more GoGo queens working in the bars using them. However, as you say, everyone sees a different side of the same coin, and depending upon your personal preferences. Alot of mongers would go there for the eye candy, but not to directly barfine per se, but this again is down to perhaps budget constraints and maybe some guys don't like the large crowds gathering there these days. Conversely some mongers like it for the very reasons you give - if you're ever going to get a decent off duty GoGo girl, or are in the market for a stunner, then WS is where you'll find her .

 

I was aiming for this thread not to turn into another "Why is pattaya in decline...?" yarn, but more hoping the specific area / decline of WS and the attitudes of the girls working there these days. We see alot of very bad behaviour in WS bars, on WS itself, this is beginning to reflect in the attitudes of the staff towards customers. We're always eager to lay the blame at their feet, when part of the reason has been our attitude (or that of our countrymen - to the average Thai a farang is a farang regardless) toward them in the past, and the present.

 

Cheers

butch

[papillon 695]

I don't think Farang Mongers are to blame.

 

I think the blame lays squarely with the Bar Owners.

 

Way too many bars with not enough money to go around so they are forced to have drink quotas for the Girls. This has been the downfall of what used to be a great place.

 

Too many bars with too few Girls hence too few Customers and sky high prices. A vicious downhill spiral.

 

Yes for me Walking Street started going downhill when everybody went Ladydrink crazy.

[js007 795]

No place stays the same forever. Hell, just look at some of the old pictures from Pattaya taken 40 years ago. Look at it now. How could it not have changed?

 

Just the other day I was reading some blog a guy wrote about NYC in the 70s. At the time, Times Square and the rest of the city were in decline, the city was almost bankrupt, and there were hookers and sleaze everywhere you looked. But it was also a time of great creativity and invention in the arts and music scene. People liked the city just the way it was. It was fun, it was alive, it was real. But at some point, a new mayor, Rudi Giuliani, decided it all needed to be "cleaned up." And according to some, he ruined the place - it now might as well be a shopping mall or Disneyland. NYC wasn't the same place anymore.

[Bornloser 2]

I choose Pats over other mongering destinations strictly because of the GOGO's.Have been visiting there for the past 7 years. I spent 4 weeks (short trip for me) in Pats last AUG-SEP and, as per my usual modus operandi, patronized a number of WS GG's where I had enjoyed myself on previous trips. All but Windmill & were a letdown, even one that a good friend of mine has managed for 3 years. Sparse nudity & lame shows with increased drink prices were my main beefs. I shall not name the other GG's, as I dislike posting unfavorable reviews.

 

I shall be visiting Pats in early 2013, &, if not for Windmill & my friend's GG, would probably not venture to WS.

 

CAVEAT: I do not BF from GG's, so I cannot address that aspect.

 

CHEERS!

[Patna 3,802]

No place stays the same forever. Hell, just look at some of the old pictures from Pattaya taken 40 years ago. Look at it now. How could it not have changed?

 

Just the other day I was reading some blog a guy wrote about NYC in the 70s. At the time, Times Square and the rest of the city were in decline, the city was almost bankrupt, and there were hookers and sleaze everywhere you looked. But it was also a time of great creativity and invention in the arts and music scene. People liked the city just the way it was. It was fun, it was alive, it was real. But at some point, a new mayor, Rudi Giuliani, decided it all needed to be "cleaned up." And according to some, he ruined the place - it now might as well be a shopping mall or Disneyland. NYC wasn't the same place anymore.

 

off

It's just too funny blaming Rudy Giuliani alone for the changing face of New York from the 70's to present times. It's a little more complex.

on

[Siam Sam 964]

It's the monthly "weren't things better back in the day" thread! Hurrah!

[js007 795]

off

It's just too funny blaming Rudy Giuliani alone for the changing face of New York from the 70's to present times. It's a little more complex.

on

 

Sure, but you have to give Giuliani at least some of the blame.

[jacko 8,814]

I am not 100% certain as my pal picked up the tab, but I think a bottle of beer was 145 baht in Spankys last night.

 

That would mark the annual high season price round-up.

I was in Superbaby prior at 120 baht a beer but the atmosphere was better suited to an astronaut.

A half hour in another venue yielded a 600 baht tab.........

Dragging cases of beer up steps is looking less arduous these days.

[atlas2 4,329]

'Kato' the go go girl that likes to creep up on me works in Alcatraz. She says, 'Now have many many beautiful girls you will like K atlas..... Have big nom from s'silicone

 

I havent been to verify but if silicone is replacing tattoos I'll be pleased. Saw one girl before I flew hereto Australia today with a totally ridiculous 'Gangnam style' tattoo. I'd thought tattoos couldn't actually put me off bit really .

 

Anyway back to 'Kato' she crept up on me yesterday too, no tattoos and unfortunately no tits either. I know rubber udders are not everyones cup of char but if members who frequent WS have also noticed this to be the case AND it takes over from the 'tramp stamps' I'll see that as a major improvement. If they are just going hand in hand well I suppose I'll just have to live with it.