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Butch

The next stage of Low Season

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I was tempted to put this as a reply to Yogi's excellent post in my excellent topic of "exchange rate tipping point", but thought it might need a thread of its own to avoid TF'ing.

Having given it some thought, Will the next stage for the bars, given the lack of custom, be laying off girls?.

Could we see the WS big guns suddenly realising that you need at least a few customers to run a laundry, and as such start decreasing the amount of Agency girls they employ?. After all, the secret of running a good laundry is getting some kind of return on your cash. I would imagine.

More to the point, the struggling beer bars, A/C joints and those with an independant source of income (that being mongers and tourists) suddenly realising that the costs are seriously outweighing the income.

Khun Somchai big boss: "khun manager, how many BF's did we hit tonight?"

"none boss"

"S/T's surely?"

"none boss"

"LD's then, tell lme about LD's"

"34 boss"

"34? all night? Am I going to have to tell somchai lead-pipe to check your pockets?"

"no boss, 34 total"

"fucking hell. Start charging for the toilet and put the prices up".

 

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Yes I can see that conversation taking place. Just as real will be the girls who simply cannot make a living. They have the choice to go freelance, and this is already happening.. The other is to pack up and go home. The other thing that hit me this month in Pattaya is that the large shopping malls must also be doing a freeze. Perhaps the powers that be will take more notice of the big money guys than the entertainment industry. Whatever else, there needs to be some radical changes if the tourist industry is to survive.

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I feel the tourist industry will survive, but not as we know it.

What the farang comes for will become less and less of the scene.

Pattaya is turning into a huge, traffic choked shopping Mall. Places like T21 and Central Festival are beyond the needs of the small town, yet there are more. Harbor Mall is a fail, location is poor, although as a Mall it is OK, but always empty. The Avenue, misguided, nobody wants to shop in 34 degC and near 100% humidity. Walking St, well I will give it a check out this week but I wonder how many of them will survive. The overheads must be staggering, mainly I mean the rent. Greed will kill it off. I have almost forgotten the existence of the over the sea eating places except the Beer Garden. I fear their prices and dislike their antics to get me to spend. I must take a look from that very beer garden to see how they are doing. Another well established farang eatery has gone, (Pig and Whistle). The remaining ones struggle, offering the same menus and to be honest, poor selection, of food. A few shine out though, by being cheap. 

Farangs, you are going to be part of history. There will just be a few lost souls wandering around, wondering what happened, likely names that have been here posting a while like myself. I am already starting to beat myself over the head over decisions I made soon after arriving here in my early 50's, with stars in my eyes, flush with 65 baht/ £. 

Oh well, I can go and get pissed.

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One day, when Walking Street has been demolished to create a concrete and brick paved desert that only looks good on travel videos, Soi 6 and Chaiyapoon have fallen derelict after a collapsed Ponzi scheme,  T21 has become the new 'Orchard Towers' and is Pattaya's 'floors of whores'... 🙂

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The other thing that I think is notable in Thailand at the moment is this. In years past the malls and clubs were full of a great range of European, American and Australasian punters. These have been exchanged for Indian, Korean, Chinese and some Russians. Some have not got the money and others come from places where prices for supermarket and mall products are as cheap or cheaper. This seems to me to be the crux of the problem. Exchanging good tourists (for the economy) for bad. The only place that I see many of them buy anything is the 7/11. I also believe that many of the Indian tourists are using Indian travel brokers in Thailand who arrange super cheap packages. I am also lead to believe that a lot of Chinese money for travel and accommodation never gets to Thailand. It all sounds like a recipe for disaster in what is a crucial part of the Thai economy.

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9 minutes ago, teelack said:

The other thing that I think is notable in Thailand at the moment is this. In years past the malls and clubs were full of a great range of European, American and Australasian punters. These have been exchanged for Indian, Korean, Chinese and some Russians. Some have not got the money and others come from places where prices for supermarket and mall products are as cheap or cheaper. This seems to me to be the crux of the problem. Exchanging good tourists (for the economy) for bad. The only place that I see many of them buy anything is the 7/11. I also believe that many of the Indian tourists are using Indian travel brokers in Thailand who arrange super cheap packages. I am also lead to believe that a lot of Chinese money for travel and accommodation never gets to Thailand. It all sounds like a recipe for disaster in what is a crucial part of the Thai economy.

Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk
 

You are correct about the money, Chinese airlines, Chinese shell company in Thailand for tours and accommodation. I couldn't put a percentage on what stays in Thailand, but I reckon not much. I have my suspicions about a number of places, including Nong Nooch, a lot of money gone into that and primary customers are Chinese tourist coaches.

 

As for shop prices, its costs me more in Central Festival than it does at home for a range of items, and that was before the AUD shat itself.

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That's the same as the block of bars that Cherry Bar sits with, Yogi. They have one DJ who plays for the whole block and plays the wrong type of music for the paying punters. The same sort of thing you mentioned and a lot of Thai music. It's the punters who put the money over the bar, but it's the Thais who make the decision to run it their way or the 'highway'. Unfortunately for most it's the highway as punters vote with their feet. It has been known for bar owners to be threatened if they complain about the DJ, from what I've heard recently.

 

KM

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45 minutes ago, Bushcraft said:

my beloved Soi 6 is a shadow of its former self for reasons already discussed on the board.

I believe a bar there recently got raided. Coming Bar.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Bushcraft said:

I concur with Jacko's depressing but realistic view of the future in Patts. I've long ceased to go to agogos except on crawls, there is an air of desperation rather than fun in many beer bars, and my beloved Soi 6 is a shadow of its former self for reasons already discussed on the board.

I think there has been a concerted and planned project on the part of government to change the nature ("quality") of the tourists who visit Patts. It began to bite at around the time FLB started struggling, the Soi 9, Soi 2 and 3 bars were demolished, and Soi 8 was made unfriendly by knocking 10-15 bars down for one hotel. This project has accelerated under the military regime, and it's working very well for them if one takes this to mean discouraging the sex scene and thereby making Patts less attractive to Farang. Let's be fair, farang have made a major contribution to the wealth of Patts and the economic prospects of many, many Thai families in the boonies, and unless that income is replaced by visitors of a different nature and spending power, lots of small Thai businesses and jobs will inevitably disappear. The exchange rate problem has unfortunately worked in favour of this project.

It's equally true that the attraction of Patts to the Chinese/Korean tour groups and Indians is precisely the seedy reputation it has, i.e. the flag-following tours of WS and Soi 6 for the thrill of open eroticism that is absolutely taboo back home.  The sex scene at large earns nothing from the Chinese, very little from the Koreans and Japs, and only hard-haggled amounts from the Indians - all in all far, far less than was to be had from the Farang they have decided should be discouraged from coming here.

So will the Asian influx take up the slack in terms of Thai incomes? Hardly. Despite a population exceeding 1 billion, word will eventually get around China that visiting Patts to be dragooned around shops selling Chinese-made goods, with precious few other attractions - least of all its beach - is not worth doing. I predict a sudden plunge in Chinese visitor numbers to Patts in around 5 years. The more spoiled and sophisticated Koreans (also usually couples) will smell that coffee even sooner, and only their mongers will come here soon. The Russians are negligible in the equation. And the Indians? Literally dozens of Indian restaurants have suddenly sprung up, perhaps for money-laundering or because the business-savvy Indians predict a large market for their own kind. They also employ almost only their own kind, not Thais, and, if they become too numerous and influential, will encounter resentment that Farang were never made to feel. Indians will not be a major source of employment for Thais in Patts, who risk being displaced with only the landlords welcoming the influx. The Arabs (to use the collective name)? Mongers who eat in their own restaurants and stay in their own areas, living four to a room in the back sois, refusing to bang anything weighing less than 15 stones.

In short, in economic terms for the Thai bargirl, dancer, massage worker, shopkeeper, launderess, bus driver etc. etc. the demographic change encouraged by their government will spell hardship that has a knock-on effect back in the boonies, while the massive malls will wonder where serious, paying customers are to come from. This is a case of the rich and powerful investing in a major tourist infrastructure for their own interests, and hang the little people who are unfortunate enough not to have cooking or other, hotel-related skills. They may well regret that investment. Thai travel agencies, airport bus services, tour guides will suffer, as these consumer groups use their own. The list goes on and on. Patts will end up with a huge, self-sufficient Indian population that pushes Thais aside, very few diehard Farang here and there, and oodles of empty hotel rooms when other Asians realise that the town has bugger all for them to spend a holiday on. At least the bloody tourist buses will gradually disappear I suppose.     

I spoke with a girl in LKM about this matter last night. She was only to quick too agree with me about the effect of her government's clean up policies and the exchange rates were having on ordinary people like herself and all the other Isaan girls and their families.

Her face contorted with anger at the mention of their leaders and she was very out spoken in her hatred of them.  After LKM shuts up shop some of the girls normally head off to Insomnia to pick up punters but now that the police make it close at 4am there not much opportunity nor time in which to hook with a customer for the night.

It's obvious that the new measures are already affecting the livelihoods of the Thais who work in Pattaya and if her anger is anything to go by then there must be a large percentage of Thai workers in all Thai resorts who are also furious with their politicians.

So it's not just hurting us falangs it's also hurting the very people who depend solely upon us for their living. There's no job centres nor dole offices in the LOS and it's not our responsibility to part with money we often don't have to take up the slack.

I used to be a soft touch when we were getting 50 - 70 baht to our GBP but I've become pretty ruthless in the last couple of years when it comes to buying LDs and I know quite a few other falangs who have as well. Many of 'em refuse to even go in GGBs let alone just buy any LDs. That much is obvious when you visit any of the GGBs in WS or LKM.

Edited by yogi100

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In some ways I compare Walking St and some of the side Sois over pattaya with my old home town.

When times were great, we had clothes stores, Dixons, hardware stores, sweet shops, joke shops, Mens clothing stores, Halfords, Cafes, Jewellers, Menzies etc etc, something for everyone. Town was always packed on a Saturday afternoon and you could guarantee meeting up with a few mates somewhere.

Today, it's got betting shops, pound shops, cash converters, "sell your gold" shops, Costas, Starbucks, Sports direct, 5 mobile phone providers plus a carphone warehouse and Turkish Barbers. As you get towards the outer edge of the main street it's Eastern European convenience stores. There are a few stalwarts there still, a Debenhams due to close, plus a handful of independant shops struggling.

It is a shithole.

As a result, no one has any need to visit, so the high street is pretty much deserted on weekdays and slightly busy at weekends. Although there are different reasons for the decline, the progression has been slow and deliberate, and it's only when you look hard and see what has happened over the years, make a comparison that the reality of it all hits home.

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Hi,

The Chinese and Indians are known for keeping the money within their communities and families. Muslims and Indians marry their cousins to keep the money in the family. The ordinary Thais will get very little of whatever money is circulating. Could be interesting times in LOS as well. You cant impoverish ordinary people and expect them to take it lying down.

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5 hours ago, yogi100 said:
 

This hullabaloo was negro rap with the usual constant references to n*ggers, motha fukkas, cocaine and cock suckas etc. Surely whoever owns it or runs the place must realise that the middle aged and elderly Western blokes who represent the majority of LKM's punters have no interest in listening to such filth and should in their own interest rectify the situation. It reminded me of Secrets and the clowns that ran it.

"Negro" rap? Were you there in 1965 and it was a bar in Alabama?

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2 hours ago, Grandpollo said:

"Negro" rap? Were you there in 1965 and it was a bar in Alabama?

There was no Negro rap in 1965 and I've never been to Alabama, what made you think I had?

This was in Paradise Agogo in LKM in Pattaya in mid June 2019 as I explained in the previous paragraph. If you're one of these people such as myself who find the use of the 'N' word offensive avoid at all costs Paradise Agogo because you'll be hearing it all night long.

Address any grievances you may have to the manager or the DJ and demand that they play music that you find acceptable.

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7 hours ago, Bushcraft said:

I concur with Jacko's depressing but realistic view of the future in Patts. I've long ceased to go to agogos except on crawls, there is an air of desperation rather than fun in many beer bars, and my beloved Soi 6 is a shadow of its former self for reasons already discussed on the board.

I think there has been a concerted and planned project on the part of government to change the nature ("quality") of the tourists who visit Patts. It began to bite at around the time FLB started struggling, the Soi 9, Soi 2 and 3 bars were demolished, and Soi 8 was made unfriendly by knocking 10-15 bars down for one hotel. This project has accelerated under the military regime, and it's working very well for them if one takes this to mean discouraging the sex scene and thereby making Patts less attractive to Farang. Let's be fair, farang have made a major contribution to the wealth of Patts and the economic prospects of many, many Thai families in the boonies, and unless that income is replaced by visitors of a different nature and spending power, lots of small Thai businesses and jobs will inevitably disappear. The exchange rate problem has unfortunately worked in favour of this project.

It's equally true that the attraction of Patts to the Chinese/Korean tour groups and Indians is precisely the seedy reputation it has, i.e. the flag-following tours of WS and Soi 6 for the thrill of open eroticism that is absolutely taboo back home.  The sex scene at large earns nothing from the Chinese, very little from the Koreans and Japs, and only hard-haggled amounts from the Indians - all in all far, far less than was to be had from the Farang they have decided should be discouraged from coming here.

So will the Asian influx take up the slack in terms of Thai incomes? Hardly. Despite a population exceeding 1 billion, word will eventually get around China that visiting Patts to be dragooned around shops selling Chinese-made goods, with precious few other attractions - least of all its beach - is not worth doing. I predict a sudden plunge in Chinese visitor numbers to Patts in around 5 years. The more spoiled and sophisticated Koreans (also usually couples) will smell that coffee even sooner, and only their mongers will come here soon. The Russians are negligible in the equation. And the Indians? Literally dozens of Indian restaurants have suddenly sprung up, perhaps for money-laundering or because the business-savvy Indians predict a large market for their own kind. They also employ almost only their own kind, not Thais, and, if they become too numerous and influential, will encounter resentment that Farang were never made to feel. Indians will not be a major source of employment for Thais in Patts, who risk being displaced with only the landlords welcoming the influx. The Arabs (to use the collective name)? Mongers who eat in their own restaurants and stay in their own areas, living four to a room in the back sois, refusing to bang anything weighing less than 15 stones.

In short, in economic terms for the Thai bargirl, dancer, massage worker, shopkeeper, launderess, bus driver etc. etc. the demographic change encouraged by their government will spell hardship that has a knock-on effect back in the boonies, while the massive malls will wonder where serious, paying customers are to come from. This is a case of the rich and powerful investing in a major tourist infrastructure for their own interests, and hang the little people who are unfortunate enough not to have cooking or other, hotel-related skills. They may well regret that investment. Thai travel agencies, airport bus services, tour guides will suffer, as these consumer groups use their own. The list goes on and on. Patts will end up with a huge, self-sufficient Indian population that pushes Thais aside, very few diehard Farang here and there, and oodles of empty hotel rooms when other Asians realise that the town has bugger all for them to spend a holiday on. At least the bloody tourist buses will gradually disappear I suppose.     

 Excellent analysis!

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

There was no Negro rap in 1965 and I've never been to Alabama, what made you think I had?

This was in Paradise Agogo in LKM in Pattaya in mid June 2019 as I explained in the previous paragraph. If you're one of these people such as myself who find the use of the 'N' word offensive avoid at all costs Paradise Agogo because you'll be hearing it all night long.

Address any grievances you may have to the manager or the DJ and demand that they play music that you find acceptable.

I have always found the word offensive but American blacks have used it with one another as long as I can recall as some kind of badge of honor. They can call each other such but outside their ethnic group the rest of us shan't use the word negro, etc.

But my era's rock and roll touched on a lot of the same topics of drugs, being anti establishment and unifying against what we then saw as an oppressive establishment.

We just did it with less vulgarity and certainly it was being pounded into our heads walking down the street.

The closest I will get to rap is this old Dylan tune. "The pump don't work 'cause the vandals took the handles."

 

Edited by midlifecrisis

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13 hours ago, Butch said:

In some ways I compare Walking St and some of the side Sois over pattaya with my old home town.

When times were great, we had clothes stores, Dixons, hardware stores, sweet shops, joke shops, Mens clothing stores, Halfords, Cafes, Jewellers, Menzies etc etc, something for everyone. Town was always packed on a Saturday afternoon and you could guarantee meeting up with a few mates somewhere.

Today, it's got betting shops, pound shops, cash converters, "sell your gold" shops, Costas, Starbucks, Sports direct, 5 mobile phone providers plus a carphone warehouse and Turkish Barbers. As you get towards the outer edge of the main street it's Eastern European convenience stores. There are a few stalwarts there still, a Debenhams due to close, plus a handful of independant shops struggling.

It is a shithole.

As a result, no one has any need to visit, so the high street is pretty much deserted on weekdays and slightly busy at weekends. Although there are different reasons for the decline, the progression has been slow and deliberate, and it's only when you look hard and see what has happened over the years, make a comparison that the reality of it all hits home.

Sounds exactly like my home town Butch. Although you missed the scrounging beggars, gangs of Romanian thieves and congregating Somalies. 

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13 hours ago, Butch said:

In some ways I compare Walking St and some of the side Sois over pattaya with my old home town.

When times were great, we had clothes stores, Dixons, hardware stores, sweet shops, joke shops, Mens clothing stores, Halfords, Cafes, Jewellers, Menzies etc etc, something for everyone. Town was always packed on a Saturday afternoon and you could guarantee meeting up with a few mates somewhere.

Today, it's got betting shops, pound shops, cash converters, "sell your gold" shops, Costas, Starbucks, Sports direct, 5 mobile phone providers plus a carphone warehouse and Turkish Barbers. As you get towards the outer edge of the main street it's Eastern European convenience stores. There are a few stalwarts there still, a Debenhams due to close, plus a handful of independant shops struggling.

It is a shithole.

As a result, no one has any need to visit, so the high street is pretty much deserted on weekdays and slightly busy at weekends. Although there are different reasons for the decline, the progression has been slow and deliberate, and it's only when you look hard and see what has happened over the years, make a comparison that the reality of it all hits home.

My son is a progressive but not when it comes to local politics. He is quite conservative because he can see what is happening across the river in Portland. 

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On 6/25/2019 at 1:02 AM, jacko said:

I believe a bar there recently got raided. Coming Bar.

Yes Coming Bar was raided with one underage girl being found as well as the possibility of illicit affairs possible on the premises. Typical timely BIB having a wee flex of muscle for the press. Given soi 6 as it is this sounds like a stitch up or tea money issue. 

I disagree with soi 6 being a done deal. Sure with the nightwish bars bring the outdoor bar style to the soi which i have really no interest in, there are still good indoor bars and no shortage of pretty girls. I had a walk of the soi about 2 weeks ago and was pretty impressed especially given all the gloom and doom i have read.

Jacko's summation of the town and WS i feel is spot on and couldn't have said it better myself. If i hit WS for a third time in a year it is between 1 and 2 times too many, weird because i practically used to live on WS. I'm talking literally as i had an apartment on Sophon Court soi 14.

As WS has evolved into what it has become thankfully the advent of gc's has risen and been a successful model. I'm basically a beer bar gc guy with a splash of Tf thrown into the works. 

On an introspective note in the 16 years of living here i certainly have changed some but not nearly as much as the town. i still love it but for different reasons now and certainly not for Terminal 21 or Central as i avoid those places like the plague

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Posted (edited)
On 6/25/2019 at 1:02 AM, jacko said:

Pattaya is turning into a huge, traffic choked shopping Mall.

Will the "out of fashion" malls turn into "Four Floors of Whores" 1, 2, 3, 4 etc....? (If they are east of 2nd Second Road maybe?)

Edited by capdagde

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On 6/25/2019 at 4:52 AM, Bob Belzy said:

One day, when Walking Street has been demolished to create a concrete and brick paved desert that only looks good on travel videos, Soi 6 and Chaiyapoon have fallen derelict after a collapsed Ponzi scheme,  T21 has become the new 'Orchard Towers' and is Pattaya's 'floors of whores'... 🙂

Sorry Bob.  I hadn't got to your post before I commented - if I'm on ignore, you won't see this, but others will at least....:sorry

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On 6/25/2019 at 9:15 AM, Bushcraft said:

Mongers who eat in their own restaurants

:rotflmao 😎

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On 6/25/2019 at 4:55 PM, yogi100 said:

the use of the 'N' word

It's like a Glaswegian calling his mate a bastard or a cunt - if you're not Glaswegian it'll be "ah YE luckin fae eu pho'ahgraph?" Thud.

Traditions....

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2 minutes ago, capdagde said:

It's like a Glaswegian calling his mate a bastard or a cunt - if you're not Glaswegian it'll be "ah YE luckin fae eu pho'ahgraph?" Thud.

Traditions....

I'll take the rap over the Glaswegians.

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